5 ms·

Don’t forget 3D printing that also only really started when patents expired.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
systemvoltage 6y ago
Between 2007-2009, 80+ Stratasys patents expired. Think about this - a single company holding back the world in advancing forward in 3D printing. Orthogonally, ever wondered why memory on your PC is so expensive? Thanks to Micron, Hynix and Samsung triopoly.
- dragosmocrii 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on the memory pricing?
  - dsr_ 6y ago
    Here's an article from 2011 doing Moore's Law extrapolation of RAM and disk prices: https://antranik.org/using-moores-law-to-predict-future-memory-trends/ https://antranik.org/using-moores-law-to-predict-future-memo... RAM, 2011: "A single 8GB stick of RAM is about $80 right now. In 2021, you’d be able to buy a single stick of RAM that contains 64GB for the same price." Disks, 2011: "The price of a 1-terabyte hard drive is $80 now... In 2013, a 2TB drive will be $80. In 2015, a 4TB drive will be $80. After that the doubling rate may lengthen to 3 years instead of 2 years so.. In 2018, an 8TB drive will be $80. And finally in 2021, for $80, you’d be able to buy a 16 terabyte hard drive"
    - ivegotnoaccount 6y ago
      Is applying Moore's law relevant, since the manufacturing process of DRAM is hugely different from the one for usual chips (limited by capacitor size, not transistor one) ? Same goes for hard drives. Not saying that price gouging has nothing to do with this, but simply saying "Moore's law was not followed" does in no way imply something interfered with it.
    - Someone 6y ago
      I don’t think it’s fair to expect hard drive capacity/$ to grow exponentially forever. Certainly for consumer hard drives, there’s a cost of getting the drive to the customer (transport, shop rent, employee salaries, etc) which is, at best, fixed. If manufacturing costs drop to zero, price will approach that fixed cost (plus any markup sellers manage to extract, for example by marketing their drives as better/more hip/etc.)
    - mendelmaleh 6y ago
      For the record, it's 2021 and the cheapest 16tb hard drive on pcpartpicker is $335. For $80 you can get a cheap 4tb hard drive.
      - treeman79 6y ago
        When I was a kid, me and a friend would be amazed at a 25,000 dollar 1 TB multi hd array. We couldn’t imagine how anyone would ever need so much space.
    - loeg 6y ago
      Moore's law was (1) an observation of historical data and (2) never a guarantee by vendors to make higher capacity products at lower prices. The extrapolation is just nonsense wishful thinking.
    - hyperpallium2 6y ago
      lcd screens didn't fall in price because of an international criminal price-fixing conspiracy. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT-LCD_(Flat_Panel)_Antitrust_Litigation https://wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT-LCD_(Flat_Panel)_Antitrust_Li...
- spoonjim 6y ago
  But isn’t it those same companies that are the reason that memory isn’t $1000/megabyte?
  - mynameisvlad 6y ago
    I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that they could price gouge even more than they already are and are keeping prices relatively low out of the goodness of their hearts?
    - est31 6y ago
      I think their point is that these companies gave us cheap memory in the first place. Which is an important thing to remember. The distruptors of days past are the monopolists of today. And they themselves will be disrupted one day.
      - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
        > The distruptors of days past are the monopolists of today. And they themselves will be disrupted one day. I can think of a few that can’t be disrupted soon enough.
    - ericd 6y ago
      They're saying it used to be that much, and now it's orders of magnitude less, thanks in part to those companies.
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    I am not sure if I understand your point.
- rudedogg 6y ago
  > Orthogonally, ever wondered why memory on your PC is so expensive? Thanks to Micron, Hynix and Samsung triopoly. Should have mentioned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing. It's not just speculative.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Between 2007-2009, 80+ Stratasys patents expired. Think about this - a single company holding back the world in advancing forward in 3D printing. Orthogonally, ever wondered why memory on your PC is so expensive? Thanks to Micron, Hynix and Samsung triopoly.

dragosmocrii 6y ago
Can you elaborate on the memory pricing?
- dsr_ 6y ago
  Here's an article from 2011 doing Moore's Law extrapolation of RAM and disk prices: https://antranik.org/using-moores-law-to-predict-future-memory-trends/ https://antranik.org/using-moores-law-to-predict-future-memo... RAM, 2011: "A single 8GB stick of RAM is about $80 right now. In 2021, you’d be able to buy a single stick of RAM that contains 64GB for the same price." Disks, 2011: "The price of a 1-terabyte hard drive is $80 now... In 2013, a 2TB drive will be $80. In 2015, a 4TB drive will be $80. After that the doubling rate may lengthen to 3 years instead of 2 years so.. In 2018, an 8TB drive will be $80. And finally in 2021, for $80, you’d be able to buy a 16 terabyte hard drive"
  - ivegotnoaccount 6y ago
    Is applying Moore's law relevant, since the manufacturing process of DRAM is hugely different from the one for usual chips (limited by capacitor size, not transistor one) ? Same goes for hard drives. Not saying that price gouging has nothing to do with this, but simply saying "Moore's law was not followed" does in no way imply something interfered with it.
  - Someone 6y ago
    I don’t think it’s fair to expect hard drive capacity/$ to grow exponentially forever. Certainly for consumer hard drives, there’s a cost of getting the drive to the customer (transport, shop rent, employee salaries, etc) which is, at best, fixed. If manufacturing costs drop to zero, price will approach that fixed cost (plus any markup sellers manage to extract, for example by marketing their drives as better/more hip/etc.)
  - mendelmaleh 6y ago
    For the record, it's 2021 and the cheapest 16tb hard drive on pcpartpicker is $335. For $80 you can get a cheap 4tb hard drive.
    - treeman79 6y ago
      When I was a kid, me and a friend would be amazed at a 25,000 dollar 1 TB multi hd array. We couldn’t imagine how anyone would ever need so much space.
  - loeg 6y ago
    Moore's law was (1) an observation of historical data and (2) never a guarantee by vendors to make higher capacity products at lower prices. The extrapolation is just nonsense wishful thinking.
  - hyperpallium2 6y ago
    lcd screens didn't fall in price because of an international criminal price-fixing conspiracy. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT-LCD_(Flat_Panel)_Antitrust_Litigation https://wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT-LCD_(Flat_Panel)_Antitrust_Li...
spoonjim 6y ago
But isn’t it those same companies that are the reason that memory isn’t $1000/megabyte?
- mynameisvlad 6y ago
  I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that they could price gouge even more than they already are and are keeping prices relatively low out of the goodness of their hearts?
  - est31 6y ago
    I think their point is that these companies gave us cheap memory in the first place. Which is an important thing to remember. The distruptors of days past are the monopolists of today. And they themselves will be disrupted one day.
    - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
      > The distruptors of days past are the monopolists of today. And they themselves will be disrupted one day. I can think of a few that can’t be disrupted soon enough.
  - ericd 6y ago
    They're saying it used to be that much, and now it's orders of magnitude less, thanks in part to those companies.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  I am not sure if I understand your point.
rudedogg 6y ago
> Orthogonally, ever wondered why memory on your PC is so expensive? Thanks to Micron, Hynix and Samsung triopoly. Should have mentioned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing. It's not just speculative.