4 ms·

The only person who put those children at risk was the mother who refused to cooperate with a legally signed warrant. Wow, let's extend that reasoning just a b

The only person who put those children at risk was the mother who refused to cooperate with a legally signed warrant. Wow, let's extend that reasoning just a bit further. If someone SWATs me (or pulls strings to get a warrant for my arrest), and I don't open the door immediately, I bear the responsibility for putting my family at risk?

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Swatting first of all is a crime. Secondly yes, you do need to comply, even if you are innocent. Otherwise you will get shot. Nobody is denying it's government overreach, blatant disregard to our rights, and breaks the 4th amendment. But wool should've been over everyone's eyes like 10 years ago. The US acts no different than China in how the state allows government abuse of power to fuck you bureaucratically. Unlike places like Germany where the state compensates you for your time and money if they can't prove your criminality, also reserving your job as well unless convicted; The US just says fuck you but only with slightly more rights than China gives their citizens.
isoskeles 6y ago
Immediately? She had over 20 minutes of knocking and a few phone calls in that period. People should watch the video and think about how long of a time 20 minutes is. They’ll most likely even find it boring and start skipping ahead to more knocking without a response.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  > She had over 20 minutes of knocking and a few phone calls in that period. So what? If somebody is knocking on my door, in the middle of the night, claiming to be a police officer, then making phone calls to verify that is 100% reasonable. If I had just been fired for politically motivated reasons, then making phone calls to alert the media when your home is being raided is 100% reasonable. > They’ll most likely even find it boring and start skipping ahead to more knocking without a response. Police are allowed to be bored. Police are allowed to sit outside a house and wait. It does them no harm, and does not justify them using additional force when serving the warrant.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    It was a sunny morning, not the middle of the night. Obviously that's a minor detail, but it's indicative of a larger problem - there's been a big game of telephone on the actual circumstances of this raid, so your mental image of what happened may be different than what the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of7ITokML-A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of7ITokML-A) shows.
    - stretchcat 6y ago
      Is the timestamp on that video accurate? T13:26 sounds like the early afternoon, not even the morning let alone late at night.
      - isoskeles 6y ago
        T13:26:00Z Z is for "Zulu" time zone (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9706688/what-does-the-z-mean-in-unix-timestamp-120314170138z https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9706688/what-does-the-z-...) So hour 13:00 in Z would be 8:00 am in Florida.
    - MereInterest 6y ago
      Good point, and thank you. The relevant pieces that I had remembered were that there was a police raid for a non-violent crime, and was emphasizing that that is not an urgent issue. It's the same way that if you see police lights pulling you over on a deserted road, you should call to verify that it is a legitimate officer.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

Swatting first of all is a crime. Secondly yes, you do need to comply, even if you are innocent. Otherwise you will get shot. Nobody is denying it's government overreach, blatant disregard to our rights, and breaks the 4th amendment. But wool should've been over everyone's eyes like 10 years ago. The US acts no different than China in how the state allows government abuse of power to fuck you bureaucratically. Unlike places like Germany where the state compensates you for your time and money if they can't prove your criminality, also reserving your job as well unless convicted; The US just says fuck you but only with slightly more rights than China gives their citizens.

isoskeles 6y ago

Immediately? She had over 20 minutes of knocking and a few phone calls in that period. People should watch the video and think about how long of a time 20 minutes is. They’ll most likely even find it boring and start skipping ahead to more knocking without a response.

MereInterest 6y ago
> She had over 20 minutes of knocking and a few phone calls in that period. So what? If somebody is knocking on my door, in the middle of the night, claiming to be a police officer, then making phone calls to verify that is 100% reasonable. If I had just been fired for politically motivated reasons, then making phone calls to alert the media when your home is being raided is 100% reasonable. > They’ll most likely even find it boring and start skipping ahead to more knocking without a response. Police are allowed to be bored. Police are allowed to sit outside a house and wait. It does them no harm, and does not justify them using additional force when serving the warrant.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  It was a sunny morning, not the middle of the night. Obviously that's a minor detail, but it's indicative of a larger problem - there's been a big game of telephone on the actual circumstances of this raid, so your mental image of what happened may be different than what the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of7ITokML-A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of7ITokML-A) shows.
  - stretchcat 6y ago
    Is the timestamp on that video accurate? T13:26 sounds like the early afternoon, not even the morning let alone late at night.
    - isoskeles 6y ago
      T13:26:00Z Z is for "Zulu" time zone (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9706688/what-does-the-z-mean-in-unix-timestamp-120314170138z https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9706688/what-does-the-z-...) So hour 13:00 in Z would be 8:00 am in Florida.
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    Good point, and thank you. The relevant pieces that I had remembered were that there was a police raid for a non-violent crime, and was emphasizing that that is not an urgent issue. It's the same way that if you see police lights pulling you over on a deserted road, you should call to verify that it is a legitimate officer.