4 ms·

>>with dual degrees in earth science and journalism in 2012 >>received a dual master's degree in geography and mass communication >>where she completed course

by nix23 6y ago

>>with dual degrees in earth science and journalism in 2012 >>received a dual master's degree in geography and mass communication >>where she completed course work with an emphasis on data science and was working on a doctoral dissertation titled Using Native American Sitescapes to Extend the North American Paleotempestological Record Through Coupled Remote Sensing and Climatological Analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebekah_Jones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebekah_Jones ...Just a Webdeveloper

xibalba 6y ago
Which of those degrees qualifies her as a data scientist capable of contravening WHO recommendations? Moreover, she is repeatedly referred to in the press as a data scientist, but all accounts of her actual work are that of a dashboard developer. Having done both myself, I can attest that they are very different types of work warranting very different training.
- eganist 6y ago
  > Which of those degrees qualifies her as a data scientist capable of contravening WHO recommendations? Literally all of her research involved gathering and communicating relevant insights from vast and disparate data sets, which is the role you just described. > Having done both myself, I can attest that they are very different types of work warranting very different training. She's educated as a data scientist specific to a given field. No different than a rocket scientist running numbers at a hedge fund. And I'd argue training v. education are vastly different; education gives context to job-specific training.
  - prepend 6y ago
    > Literally all of her research involved gathering and communicating... Pedantically pointing out that, literally, this is a false statement. It’s ok to accurately reflect her work and that advanced degrees are hard without assigning incorrect and hyperbolic characteristics.
    - eganist 6y ago
      > Pedantically pointing out that, literally, this is a false statement. My statement is so generic as to be true in the context of fields involving scientific research. And that's in essence the point: that's what data science is in the end. This isn't an attempt to incense those with Data Scientist in their job title or job description, but it's why so many STEM folks can easily find homes in Data Science without formal education on the topic.
      - prepend 6y ago
        Not really, I don’t think all her research involved gathering and communicating relevant insights. There’s lots of other parts of research. Also, data science is a sort of generic term and trying to generalize to any form of common characteristics is not very productive. I’m not aware of any certified curricula for data science or accreditation bodies so it’s kind of a marketing label assigned to everything from boot camps to GIS programs. I think this is positive since lots of people work with data. But it’s problematic to assume that it means anything other than someone wants to signal that they work with data.
        eganist 6y ago
        > Not really, I don’t think all her research involved gathering and communicating relevant insights. There’s lots of other parts of research. But that is, in fact, the definition of research ("the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions") and the publication of research findings fits the definition of communication. I guess my point is: if you're going to be pedantic on the internet, you should consider whether it's worth your time defending your own contribution. I've got no qualms defending the idea that Rebekah Jones is a data scientist.
  - xibalba 6y ago
    > She's educated as a data scientist specific to a given field. > [data scientist] is the role you just described. No. She's not a data scientist and she herself doesn't even make this claim [1] Her job titles were: 1) GIS Analyst and 2) Geographic Information Systems Manager. Both are systems/dev roles. Clearly, neither is a position from which one is qualified to contravene the WHO. Her degrees (per her own LinkedIn page) are in Geography. Take a look at the degree requirements at Syracuse (which offers both a BA and a BS (Jones earned the BA option)) [2] and LSU [3]. Next, go look at a few DS job postings and tell me the requirements are aligned (they are not). I'm sure Jones is smart. I'm sure Jones is well versed in Geography. But she's not a data scientist. Even if she were, her skills and experience would not qualify her to overrule WHO guidance. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/in/stormjones/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/stormjones/ [2] http://coursecatalog.syr.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=3&poid=858&returnto=255 http://coursecatalog.syr.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=3&po... [3] https://lsu.edu/ga/programs/msgeography.php https://lsu.edu/ga/programs/msgeography.php
    - nix23 6y ago
      >GIS Analyst You know what GIS means? Geo INFORMATION System....Analyst. Not many other Fields produces more Data then geo...maybe Weather...that's more complicated data (and hard to interpret) as most people who claim the title Data Scientist will ever see. >But she's not a data scientist. Stop with that it's no even a real job, it's a base training. Do you really think a Data Scientist has any plan what Cern Data s even mean...no.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- syshum 6y ago
  I love that all the replies are just competing appeals to Authority "My Experts™ are more Experts™ than your Experts™" Not a single person in this thread as actually made any factual statements or presented any actual evidence of either sides correctness or validity. It simply "She has these degree;s so we should listens" vs "The WHO Says...." It would be amusing if it was not so sad...
jjcon 6y ago
What does that have to do with anything? Her job was a web developer, not a data scientist. None of those qualify her to understand statistics better than the plethora of those employed by the state that are working diligently. Plenty of employees have been let go for spreading falsities around COVID, most having been on the other side (COVID isn’t real etc). These behaviors are absolutely unacceptable and are dangerous.
- nix23 6y ago
  >>where she completed course work with an emphasis on data science and was working on a doctoral dissertation titled Using Native American Sitescapes to Extend the North American Paleotempestological Record Through Coupled Remote Sensing and Climatological Analysis. >None of those qualify her to understand statistics better than the plethora of those employed by the state that are working diligently. Is your society really that stupid that you have to be a specialist to understand statistics?
  - jjcon 6y ago
    Taking a stats class does not a data scientist make. COVID statistics can be very very difficult to interpret, especially at the beginning when data was scarce. Edit to add example : For instance, most people agree it is best to exclude totally random testing sites from COVID numbers because even though the false positive rate is very low, at the beginning so was the incidence of COVID which means most of the positive tests would be false positive. Including them or improperly dealing with that data would be considered base rate fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy This is just one statistical phenomenon that has to be dealt with. It’s complicated and sometimes messy but it absolutely requires top minds
    - nix23 6y ago
      Are you even capable of reading? No wonder you need a specialist to "decipher" simple data as covid-cases/day. EDIT: Why are you changing your comment to that extend. That's not honest anymore. Bye
beervirus 6y ago
Having degrees in irrelevant fields is... irrelevant.
- nix23 6y ago
  Ahh that's why mathematicians have no clue of Astrophysics and vice versa? And making your Doctor with emphasis on data science, has nothing todo with understanding simple data like covid-cases right? BTW Earth science has probably more todo with data than anything else.
  - prepend 6y ago
    It’s not that mathematicians have no clue of astrophysics, but that they aren’t working in that area and understanding the field enough to contravene decisions made by astrophysicists. There’s a rationale around what is, and is not, included in case definitions and included in dashboards. It’s likely that these decisions are made by epidemiologists with not only specific training, but also access to much more data than the person who builds the dashboards. Making a decision to include data in a visualization without understanding why is not a good idea because it’s common that people think they know what numbers mean, but only because they have limited visibility. Having a degree in data science doesn’t mean that I’m a data scientist. If I’m hired in a web dev role, then I hope my input is received well and considered by epidemiologists in charge. And I hope they’d be able to spend time explaining the rationale behind their decisions. This seems like a similar analogy where the build engineer decides to change the git repo because they know better than the dev team. Then someone reading the article says “well they have a PhD in computer science so they should know what they’re doing, it’s simple.”
- DaniloDias 6y ago
  Since appeal to authority is the only hotness nowadays, you can anticipate 2bn downvotes.
- tedd4u 6y ago
  A rabid credential-ist might point out Isaac Newton never got a Physics degree. Credentialism: belief in or reliance on academic or other formal qualifications as the best measure of a person's intelligence or ability to do a particular job
fdschoeneman 6y ago
I don't think the degrees you've cited necessarily make one a data scientist. I think doing data scientist work makes you a data scientist. So it may well be best to consider her a data scientist based on her current work or even if it is more of a hobby, even if your degree argument isn't the one I'd use. Nevertheless, Ms. Jones was paid as a web developer by the state, not as a data scientist, and if she was publishing data she thought was important at the expense of data the state's paid data-scientists thought were important, she had to be fired. What if Ms. Jones was taking advantage of her position as a web developer and publishing her work as a hobbyist data scientist that showed masks are ineffective at the expense of the data science work of official state data scientists who were saying they are likely to be helpful? I'd still consider her a data scientist, I just would want the state to be able to fire her.
- nix23 6y ago
  >I think doing data scientist work makes you a data scientist Then we just hope you Surgeon is not like that, and has at least a degree in Medicine.
  - fdschoeneman 6y ago
    I get what you're saying, but is a hospital likely to employ a surgeon without a degree in medicine?
    - nix23 6y ago
      Well in Pakistan the do that with Pilots without a license ;) But beeing Cern your Data Scientist is probably a Particle-physicist or a Scientific-Programmer, and so on...
  - serf 6y ago
    I don't get it. 1) People on HN say the person isn't educated, so you link her degrees in varying fields (not statistics or epidemiology). 2) People on HN say that those fields are irrelevant to her work, so you explain their relevance to the field of statistics. 3) People say on HN that credentials don't matter as long as you're doing the work of a data scientist, at which point you declare the importance of a relevant degree to the field. So, which is it that draws importance? The college-level education of any kind, or the credentials that establish the doctor? I find your opinions to be largely at-odds with one another. Personally : I don't care at all about credentials if the quality is there. With regards to this specific case, i'll wait until the facts are in -- but it rubs me the wrong way that authorities don't want to speak of her charges even though she's available and willing to cooperate from what I read in the article. P.S. I share your pain with those that edit comments in a dishonest way post-reply. It's a real problem on HN.

by nix23 6y ago

xibalba 6y ago

Which of those degrees qualifies her as a data scientist capable of contravening WHO recommendations? Moreover, she is repeatedly referred to in the press as a data scientist, but all accounts of her actual work are that of a dashboard developer. Having done both myself, I can attest that they are very different types of work warranting very different training.

eganist 6y ago
> Which of those degrees qualifies her as a data scientist capable of contravening WHO recommendations? Literally all of her research involved gathering and communicating relevant insights from vast and disparate data sets, which is the role you just described. > Having done both myself, I can attest that they are very different types of work warranting very different training. She's educated as a data scientist specific to a given field. No different than a rocket scientist running numbers at a hedge fund. And I'd argue training v. education are vastly different; education gives context to job-specific training.
- prepend 6y ago
  > Literally all of her research involved gathering and communicating... Pedantically pointing out that, literally, this is a false statement. It’s ok to accurately reflect her work and that advanced degrees are hard without assigning incorrect and hyperbolic characteristics.
  - eganist 6y ago
    > Pedantically pointing out that, literally, this is a false statement. My statement is so generic as to be true in the context of fields involving scientific research. And that's in essence the point: that's what data science is in the end. This isn't an attempt to incense those with Data Scientist in their job title or job description, but it's why so many STEM folks can easily find homes in Data Science without formal education on the topic.
    - prepend 6y ago
      Not really, I don’t think all her research involved gathering and communicating relevant insights. There’s lots of other parts of research. Also, data science is a sort of generic term and trying to generalize to any form of common characteristics is not very productive. I’m not aware of any certified curricula for data science or accreditation bodies so it’s kind of a marketing label assigned to everything from boot camps to GIS programs. I think this is positive since lots of people work with data. But it’s problematic to assume that it means anything other than someone wants to signal that they work with data.
      - eganist 6y ago
        > Not really, I don’t think all her research involved gathering and communicating relevant insights. There’s lots of other parts of research. But that is, in fact, the definition of research ("the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions") and the publication of research findings fits the definition of communication. I guess my point is: if you're going to be pedantic on the internet, you should consider whether it's worth your time defending your own contribution. I've got no qualms defending the idea that Rebekah Jones is a data scientist.
- xibalba 6y ago
  > She's educated as a data scientist specific to a given field. > [data scientist] is the role you just described. No. She's not a data scientist and she herself doesn't even make this claim [1] Her job titles were: 1) GIS Analyst and 2) Geographic Information Systems Manager. Both are systems/dev roles. Clearly, neither is a position from which one is qualified to contravene the WHO. Her degrees (per her own LinkedIn page) are in Geography. Take a look at the degree requirements at Syracuse (which offers both a BA and a BS (Jones earned the BA option)) [2] and LSU [3]. Next, go look at a few DS job postings and tell me the requirements are aligned (they are not). I'm sure Jones is smart. I'm sure Jones is well versed in Geography. But she's not a data scientist. Even if she were, her skills and experience would not qualify her to overrule WHO guidance. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/in/stormjones/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/stormjones/ [2] http://coursecatalog.syr.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=3&poid=858&returnto=255 http://coursecatalog.syr.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=3&po... [3] https://lsu.edu/ga/programs/msgeography.php https://lsu.edu/ga/programs/msgeography.php
  - nix23 6y ago
    >GIS Analyst You know what GIS means? Geo INFORMATION System....Analyst. Not many other Fields produces more Data then geo...maybe Weather...that's more complicated data (and hard to interpret) as most people who claim the title Data Scientist will ever see. >But she's not a data scientist. Stop with that it's no even a real job, it's a base training. Do you really think a Data Scientist has any plan what Cern Data s even mean...no.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
syshum 6y ago
I love that all the replies are just competing appeals to Authority "My Experts™ are more Experts™ than your Experts™" Not a single person in this thread as actually made any factual statements or presented any actual evidence of either sides correctness or validity. It simply "She has these degree;s so we should listens" vs "The WHO Says...." It would be amusing if it was not so sad...

jjcon 6y ago

What does that have to do with anything? Her job was a web developer, not a data scientist. None of those qualify her to understand statistics better than the plethora of those employed by the state that are working diligently. Plenty of employees have been let go for spreading falsities around COVID, most having been on the other side (COVID isn’t real etc). These behaviors are absolutely unacceptable and are dangerous.

nix23 6y ago
>>where she completed course work with an emphasis on data science and was working on a doctoral dissertation titled Using Native American Sitescapes to Extend the North American Paleotempestological Record Through Coupled Remote Sensing and Climatological Analysis. >None of those qualify her to understand statistics better than the plethora of those employed by the state that are working diligently. Is your society really that stupid that you have to be a specialist to understand statistics?
- jjcon 6y ago
  Taking a stats class does not a data scientist make. COVID statistics can be very very difficult to interpret, especially at the beginning when data was scarce. Edit to add example : For instance, most people agree it is best to exclude totally random testing sites from COVID numbers because even though the false positive rate is very low, at the beginning so was the incidence of COVID which means most of the positive tests would be false positive. Including them or improperly dealing with that data would be considered base rate fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy This is just one statistical phenomenon that has to be dealt with. It’s complicated and sometimes messy but it absolutely requires top minds
  - nix23 6y ago
    Are you even capable of reading? No wonder you need a specialist to "decipher" simple data as covid-cases/day. EDIT: Why are you changing your comment to that extend. That's not honest anymore. Bye

beervirus 6y ago

Having degrees in irrelevant fields is... irrelevant.

nix23 6y ago
Ahh that's why mathematicians have no clue of Astrophysics and vice versa? And making your Doctor with emphasis on data science, has nothing todo with understanding simple data like covid-cases right? BTW Earth science has probably more todo with data than anything else.
- prepend 6y ago
  It’s not that mathematicians have no clue of astrophysics, but that they aren’t working in that area and understanding the field enough to contravene decisions made by astrophysicists. There’s a rationale around what is, and is not, included in case definitions and included in dashboards. It’s likely that these decisions are made by epidemiologists with not only specific training, but also access to much more data than the person who builds the dashboards. Making a decision to include data in a visualization without understanding why is not a good idea because it’s common that people think they know what numbers mean, but only because they have limited visibility. Having a degree in data science doesn’t mean that I’m a data scientist. If I’m hired in a web dev role, then I hope my input is received well and considered by epidemiologists in charge. And I hope they’d be able to spend time explaining the rationale behind their decisions. This seems like a similar analogy where the build engineer decides to change the git repo because they know better than the dev team. Then someone reading the article says “well they have a PhD in computer science so they should know what they’re doing, it’s simple.”
DaniloDias 6y ago
Since appeal to authority is the only hotness nowadays, you can anticipate 2bn downvotes.
tedd4u 6y ago
A rabid credential-ist might point out Isaac Newton never got a Physics degree. Credentialism: belief in or reliance on academic or other formal qualifications as the best measure of a person's intelligence or ability to do a particular job

fdschoeneman 6y ago

I don't think the degrees you've cited necessarily make one a data scientist. I think doing data scientist work makes you a data scientist. So it may well be best to consider her a data scientist based on her current work or even if it is more of a hobby, even if your degree argument isn't the one I'd use. Nevertheless, Ms. Jones was paid as a web developer by the state, not as a data scientist, and if she was publishing data she thought was important at the expense of data the state's paid data-scientists thought were important, she had to be fired. What if Ms. Jones was taking advantage of her position as a web developer and publishing her work as a hobbyist data scientist that showed masks are ineffective at the expense of the data science work of official state data scientists who were saying they are likely to be helpful? I'd still consider her a data scientist, I just would want the state to be able to fire her.

nix23 6y ago
>I think doing data scientist work makes you a data scientist Then we just hope you Surgeon is not like that, and has at least a degree in Medicine.
- fdschoeneman 6y ago
  I get what you're saying, but is a hospital likely to employ a surgeon without a degree in medicine?
  - nix23 6y ago
    Well in Pakistan the do that with Pilots without a license ;) But beeing Cern your Data Scientist is probably a Particle-physicist or a Scientific-Programmer, and so on...
- serf 6y ago
  I don't get it. 1) People on HN say the person isn't educated, so you link her degrees in varying fields (not statistics or epidemiology). 2) People on HN say that those fields are irrelevant to her work, so you explain their relevance to the field of statistics. 3) People say on HN that credentials don't matter as long as you're doing the work of a data scientist, at which point you declare the importance of a relevant degree to the field. So, which is it that draws importance? The college-level education of any kind, or the credentials that establish the doctor? I find your opinions to be largely at-odds with one another. Personally : I don't care at all about credentials if the quality is there. With regards to this specific case, i'll wait until the facts are in -- but it rubs me the wrong way that authorities don't want to speak of her charges even though she's available and willing to cooperate from what I read in the article. P.S. I share your pain with those that edit comments in a dishonest way post-reply. It's a real problem on HN.