4 ms·

If you have few hard facts, how are you evaluating the justification for raiding her home?

jkhdigital 6y ago
The raid on her home is one event which is pretty well documented, and I have little tolerance for militarized police tactics in general.
kasey_junk 6y ago
It’s fairly easy to reconcile the opinions “I’m not sure if she has done something criminal” and “the police used excessive and intentionally intimidating force when other safer options were open to them”.
mdoms 6y ago
I'd suggest you have a look at how policing is done outside of USA. A raid on someone's home is almost never justified - it would take highly exceptional circumstances to make a "normal" police force perform like that.
- overscore 6y ago
  Raids are common in almost every European country - which in general have "normal" police forces - where the police believe someone might destroy evidence.
  - trasz 6y ago
    Only if the charges are heavy enough, and even then it usually happens in civilized way, not like SWAT.
    - overscore 6y ago
      It happens in Ireland all the time for personal amounts of drugs. They are generally unarmed raids unless it's a gangland case, though.
      - syshum 6y ago
        >>It happens in Ireland hmm >>They are generally unarmed raids So then does not happen all the time in Ireland You should really look into how the US conducts "raids" even when there is no "gangland" case involved. They have one procedure for all raids, and it very militaristic, they are always armed, and it is ALWAYS excessive and violent. What you are calling a "raid" in Ireland would not be what we in the US called a Raid which is very specific activity of police
        overscore 6y ago
        Different threat models, but a raid is a raid. Just like an arrest is an arrest, even though in the US it will necessarily involve firearms and in Ireland, it almost never will.
        mdoms 6y ago
        > a raid is a raid Nonsense. There's a world of difference between a couple of cops knocking on your door and a full squad of fully armed, fully armoured militarised faux-soldiers busting down your door and threatening to shoot you, your family and your pets - and often following through on those threats.
        overscore 6y ago
        You are moving the goal posts. Police knocking on your door is not a raid - the element of surprise is the defining factor, from the US to anywhere in Europe to an infantry section in Kandahar. You claim above that raids are unique to the US and its abnormal police, but now the claim has morphed into the manner in which they are conducted that's different. Even in Ireland, where police are routinely unarmed and gun crime is rare, if there's a reasonable suspicion that a suspect may have firearms, a police raid will involve nearly identical weapons and equipment to a US SWAT team. I think you have an unrealistic view of policing outside of the US. There are no police forces that do not conduct raids. The militarisation of police is separate problem, and the solution is not going to involve removing the tactics that the so-called normal police forces rely on.
spoonjim 6y ago
In some countries, a surprise raid of your home means “we think you have hostages in your basement” or something at that level.
- wl 6y ago
  You're going to see surprise raids in any country whenever the police believe there's evidence to be found that would be destroyed or tampered with if the suspect had advance notice.
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    That doesn't explain them training guns on her when she was clearly unarmed and not a threat. Also didn't they wait something like 20 minutes before breaching the residence?

The raid on her home is one event which is pretty well documented, and I have little tolerance for militarized police tactics in general.

kasey_junk 6y ago

It’s fairly easy to reconcile the opinions “I’m not sure if she has done something criminal” and “the police used excessive and intentionally intimidating force when other safer options were open to them”.

mdoms 6y ago

I'd suggest you have a look at how policing is done outside of USA. A raid on someone's home is almost never justified - it would take highly exceptional circumstances to make a "normal" police force perform like that.

overscore 6y ago
Raids are common in almost every European country - which in general have "normal" police forces - where the police believe someone might destroy evidence.
- trasz 6y ago
  Only if the charges are heavy enough, and even then it usually happens in civilized way, not like SWAT.
  - overscore 6y ago
    It happens in Ireland all the time for personal amounts of drugs. They are generally unarmed raids unless it's a gangland case, though.
    - syshum 6y ago
      >>It happens in Ireland hmm >>They are generally unarmed raids So then does not happen all the time in Ireland You should really look into how the US conducts "raids" even when there is no "gangland" case involved. They have one procedure for all raids, and it very militaristic, they are always armed, and it is ALWAYS excessive and violent. What you are calling a "raid" in Ireland would not be what we in the US called a Raid which is very specific activity of police
      - overscore 6y ago
        Different threat models, but a raid is a raid. Just like an arrest is an arrest, even though in the US it will necessarily involve firearms and in Ireland, it almost never will.
        mdoms 6y ago
        > a raid is a raid Nonsense. There's a world of difference between a couple of cops knocking on your door and a full squad of fully armed, fully armoured militarised faux-soldiers busting down your door and threatening to shoot you, your family and your pets - and often following through on those threats.
        overscore 6y ago
        You are moving the goal posts. Police knocking on your door is not a raid - the element of surprise is the defining factor, from the US to anywhere in Europe to an infantry section in Kandahar. You claim above that raids are unique to the US and its abnormal police, but now the claim has morphed into the manner in which they are conducted that's different. Even in Ireland, where police are routinely unarmed and gun crime is rare, if there's a reasonable suspicion that a suspect may have firearms, a police raid will involve nearly identical weapons and equipment to a US SWAT team. I think you have an unrealistic view of policing outside of the US. There are no police forces that do not conduct raids. The militarisation of police is separate problem, and the solution is not going to involve removing the tactics that the so-called normal police forces rely on.

spoonjim 6y ago

In some countries, a surprise raid of your home means “we think you have hostages in your basement” or something at that level.

wl 6y ago
You're going to see surprise raids in any country whenever the police believe there's evidence to be found that would be destroyed or tampered with if the suspect had advance notice.
- chillwaves 6y ago
  That doesn't explain them training guns on her when she was clearly unarmed and not a threat. Also didn't they wait something like 20 minutes before breaching the residence?