8 ms·

Agreed--as a Florida resident, I have heard a variety of highly-charged opinions on this story from many of my fellow residents, but very few hard facts to conf

Agreed--as a Florida resident, I have heard a variety of highly-charged opinions on this story from many of my fellow residents, but very few hard facts to confirm or deny any particular narrative. I think the raid on Ms. Jones home was a grotesque and unwarranted use of police force, but I also think her "whistle-blowing" story is highly questionable based on the facts available.

xibalba 6y ago
If you have few hard facts, how are you evaluating the justification for raiding her home?
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  The raid on her home is one event which is pretty well documented, and I have little tolerance for militarized police tactics in general.
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  It’s fairly easy to reconcile the opinions “I’m not sure if she has done something criminal” and “the police used excessive and intentionally intimidating force when other safer options were open to them”.
- mdoms 6y ago
  I'd suggest you have a look at how policing is done outside of USA. A raid on someone's home is almost never justified - it would take highly exceptional circumstances to make a "normal" police force perform like that.
  - overscore 6y ago
    Raids are common in almost every European country - which in general have "normal" police forces - where the police believe someone might destroy evidence.
    - trasz 6y ago
      Only if the charges are heavy enough, and even then it usually happens in civilized way, not like SWAT.
      - overscore 6y ago
        It happens in Ireland all the time for personal amounts of drugs. They are generally unarmed raids unless it's a gangland case, though.
        syshum 6y ago
        >>It happens in Ireland hmm >>They are generally unarmed raids So then does not happen all the time in Ireland You should really look into how the US conducts "raids" even when there is no "gangland" case involved. They have one procedure for all raids, and it very militaristic, they are always armed, and it is ALWAYS excessive and violent. What you are calling a "raid" in Ireland would not be what we in the US called a Raid which is very specific activity of police
        overscore 6y ago
        Different threat models, but a raid is a raid. Just like an arrest is an arrest, even though in the US it will necessarily involve firearms and in Ireland, it almost never will.
        mdoms 6y ago
        > a raid is a raid Nonsense. There's a world of difference between a couple of cops knocking on your door and a full squad of fully armed, fully armoured militarised faux-soldiers busting down your door and threatening to shoot you, your family and your pets - and often following through on those threats.
        overscore 6y ago
        You are moving the goal posts. Police knocking on your door is not a raid - the element of surprise is the defining factor, from the US to anywhere in Europe to an infantry section in Kandahar. You claim above that raids are unique to the US and its abnormal police, but now the claim has morphed into the manner in which they are conducted that's different. Even in Ireland, where police are routinely unarmed and gun crime is rare, if there's a reasonable suspicion that a suspect may have firearms, a police raid will involve nearly identical weapons and equipment to a US SWAT team. I think you have an unrealistic view of policing outside of the US. There are no police forces that do not conduct raids. The militarisation of police is separate problem, and the solution is not going to involve removing the tactics that the so-called normal police forces rely on.
- spoonjim 6y ago
  In some countries, a surprise raid of your home means “we think you have hostages in your basement” or something at that level.
  - wl 6y ago
    You're going to see surprise raids in any country whenever the police believe there's evidence to be found that would be destroyed or tampered with if the suspect had advance notice.
    - chillwaves 6y ago
      That doesn't explain them training guns on her when she was clearly unarmed and not a threat. Also didn't they wait something like 20 minutes before breaching the residence?
fdschoeneman 6y ago
I don't know what the raid on Ms. Jones house was about and am going to reserve judgment until I do. There's just so much weirdness. She calls herself a data scientist, which she may well consider herself to be, but the state appears to have hired her as a website developer, and fired her as a website developer, because she refused to put out data in her capacity as a web developer that the state's paid, official data scientists were giving her. I guess you could consider her a whistleblower. But it's unclear the state did anything wrong other than a) insist that the numbers from its data scientists be published on a state website instead of Ms. Jones's and b) protect its emergency communication system by investigating abuses of same by what to me, at least, looks like a very likely suspect.
- MilnerRoute 6y ago
  According to the article in the Tampa Bay Times, Jones' official title was: Geographic information system manager for the Florida Department of Health's Division of Disease Control and Health Protection
  - fdschoeneman 6y ago
    Interesting.

xibalba 6y ago

If you have few hard facts, how are you evaluating the justification for raiding her home?

jkhdigital 6y ago
The raid on her home is one event which is pretty well documented, and I have little tolerance for militarized police tactics in general.
kasey_junk 6y ago
It’s fairly easy to reconcile the opinions “I’m not sure if she has done something criminal” and “the police used excessive and intentionally intimidating force when other safer options were open to them”.
mdoms 6y ago
I'd suggest you have a look at how policing is done outside of USA. A raid on someone's home is almost never justified - it would take highly exceptional circumstances to make a "normal" police force perform like that.
- overscore 6y ago
  Raids are common in almost every European country - which in general have "normal" police forces - where the police believe someone might destroy evidence.
  - trasz 6y ago
    Only if the charges are heavy enough, and even then it usually happens in civilized way, not like SWAT.
    - overscore 6y ago
      It happens in Ireland all the time for personal amounts of drugs. They are generally unarmed raids unless it's a gangland case, though.
      - syshum 6y ago
        >>It happens in Ireland hmm >>They are generally unarmed raids So then does not happen all the time in Ireland You should really look into how the US conducts "raids" even when there is no "gangland" case involved. They have one procedure for all raids, and it very militaristic, they are always armed, and it is ALWAYS excessive and violent. What you are calling a "raid" in Ireland would not be what we in the US called a Raid which is very specific activity of police
        overscore 6y ago
        Different threat models, but a raid is a raid. Just like an arrest is an arrest, even though in the US it will necessarily involve firearms and in Ireland, it almost never will.
        mdoms 6y ago
        > a raid is a raid Nonsense. There's a world of difference between a couple of cops knocking on your door and a full squad of fully armed, fully armoured militarised faux-soldiers busting down your door and threatening to shoot you, your family and your pets - and often following through on those threats.
        overscore 6y ago
        You are moving the goal posts. Police knocking on your door is not a raid - the element of surprise is the defining factor, from the US to anywhere in Europe to an infantry section in Kandahar. You claim above that raids are unique to the US and its abnormal police, but now the claim has morphed into the manner in which they are conducted that's different. Even in Ireland, where police are routinely unarmed and gun crime is rare, if there's a reasonable suspicion that a suspect may have firearms, a police raid will involve nearly identical weapons and equipment to a US SWAT team. I think you have an unrealistic view of policing outside of the US. There are no police forces that do not conduct raids. The militarisation of police is separate problem, and the solution is not going to involve removing the tactics that the so-called normal police forces rely on.
spoonjim 6y ago
In some countries, a surprise raid of your home means “we think you have hostages in your basement” or something at that level.
- wl 6y ago
  You're going to see surprise raids in any country whenever the police believe there's evidence to be found that would be destroyed or tampered with if the suspect had advance notice.
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    That doesn't explain them training guns on her when she was clearly unarmed and not a threat. Also didn't they wait something like 20 minutes before breaching the residence?

fdschoeneman 6y ago

I don't know what the raid on Ms. Jones house was about and am going to reserve judgment until I do. There's just so much weirdness. She calls herself a data scientist, which she may well consider herself to be, but the state appears to have hired her as a website developer, and fired her as a website developer, because she refused to put out data in her capacity as a web developer that the state's paid, official data scientists were giving her. I guess you could consider her a whistleblower. But it's unclear the state did anything wrong other than a) insist that the numbers from its data scientists be published on a state website instead of Ms. Jones's and b) protect its emergency communication system by investigating abuses of same by what to me, at least, looks like a very likely suspect.

MilnerRoute 6y ago
According to the article in the Tampa Bay Times, Jones' official title was: Geographic information system manager for the Florida Department of Health's Division of Disease Control and Health Protection
- fdschoeneman 6y ago
  Interesting.