7 ms·

Vs GM's current token, the Bolt, at $36,500 for 259 mile range, with an 8/100 warranty. It's a perfectly cromulent car at this point: including a couple feature

Vs GM's current token, the Bolt, at $36,500 for 259 mile range, with an 8/100 warranty. It's a perfectly cromulent car at this point: including a couple features Tesla 3 doesn't have like hatchback and headlights that steer into curves. But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive because many are both threatened by the Bolt and ignorant of it. I finally found a good dealer with stock and knowledge to give me a test drive last year. Mary has been open that half the company is a liability, as well. https://www.barrons.com/articles/mary-barra-on-general-motors-all-electric-future-51605317984 https://www.barrons.com/articles/mary-barra-on-general-motor...

AuthorizedCust 6y ago
Nice Simpson’s reference: cromulent. More info: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent
- dragosmocrii 6y ago
  Was about to make the same reference. It's a nice sounding word "cromulent", this and the word "fillichor".
throw0101a 6y ago
Doing a quick search, GM's ten best-selling vehicles were trucks and SUVs in 2019: * https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/03/these-were-the-10-best-selling-gm-models-of-2019/ https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/03/these-were-the-10-best-... Except for the Malibu (#5). It may be that they are (were?) doing things small to start to learn a bit more before ramping up. Just yesterday (1/15) they announced a major investment for EVs in Ontario: * https://www.thespec.com/ts/business/2021/01/15/gm-canada-announces-tentative-deal-for-1-billion-electric-vehicle-plant-in-ontario.html https://www.thespec.com/ts/business/2021/01/15/gm-canada-ann... There could also be friction given GM's large dealership network about profits: service departments are needed much less with EVs compare to ICE vehicles. I think things will change once GM announce EV SUVs and pick-up trucks. How knows when that will be though.
- csours 6y ago
  https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev https://www.autonews.com/dealers/about-150-cadillac-dealers-taking-buyouts-report-says https://www.autonews.com/dealers/about-150-cadillac-dealers-... Disclaimer: I work for GM. I don't work on any EV specific programs.
perardi 6y ago
I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design of the Bolt. “You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let’s go for that for our big re-entry into the EV market.”
- acct776 6y ago
  They were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them retain market strength longer. Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious ventures in.
  - perardi 6y ago
    Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know they’ll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as much of a nerd pod as possible. (And there’s a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that ain’t Chevy’s market, no sir.)
    - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
      Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM. GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla have taken battery temp management and lifespans seriously. GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. They are not producing compliance cars. Unlike Tesla they are responsible to their shareholders, and have to pay a dividend. So they make and sell what is profitable. The EV thing, they are limited by battery supplies and market demand, but they are well positioned to do better than the others once those obstacles are surmounted. The Bolt is a good vehicle. It's not in a form factor I love, but the tech in it is excellent.
      - somerandomqaguy 6y ago
        GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020 and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on Cadilliac branded EV's first. I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to create a production line, and then take a loss per unit sold other then for compliance. [1]https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-money-off-electric-cars-until-next-decade.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-mon...
danans 6y ago
> But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive because many are both threatened by the Bolt and ignorant of it. With good reason. EVs, thanks to their mechanical simplicity and resulting lower maintenance costs, present a major problem for traditional dealers who are reliant on maintenance revenue for EV engines. There is also cultural friction resulting from the use of petroleum becoming an identity politics issue for many - with particular constituencies (like auto dealerships and oil companies) having their interests tied to petroleum based vehicle technology. The grassroots expressions of this include the "ICE-ing" of EV chargers [1]. This identity dimension has increased as petroleum gradually loses its actual product advantages (rapid fueling being the most significant). 1. https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/ram-1500-that-identifies-as-a-prius-tries-sipping-electrons-at-tesla-supercharger-station/ https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/ram-1500-that-identifies-a... https://www.techspot.com/news/78089-tesla-hating-pickup-drivers-blocking-charging-stations-but.html https://www.techspot.com/news/78089-tesla-hating-pickup-driv...
- refurb 6y ago
  I don’t buy dealership that dealerships don’t like EVs because they make less money on repairs. A lot of the work dealers do is warranty work (paid my mfr). Warranty work is due to manufacturer defect and defects can happen with ICE vehicles or EVs. Just look at the build quality issues Tesla was having. Maintenance and repair issues go far beyond the engine. Power train, electrical, doors, windows, brakes, lighting - all of which EVs still have. Yeah, it’s great when you don’t need an oil or filter change twice a year, but that’s about all the maintenance an ICE needs.
  - zamfi 6y ago
    The reality is less important than the perception, though. The perception among laypeople is that EVs are less maintenance than ICEs, even though that may only be marginally true. The perception among dealership staff likely matches this.
  - tialaramex 6y ago

AuthorizedCust 6y ago

Nice Simpson’s reference: cromulent. More info: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent

dragosmocrii 6y ago
Was about to make the same reference. It's a nice sounding word "cromulent", this and the word "fillichor".

throw0101a 6y ago

Doing a quick search, GM's ten best-selling vehicles were trucks and SUVs in 2019: * https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/03/these-were-the-10-best-selling-gm-models-of-2019/ https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/03/these-were-the-10-best-... Except for the Malibu (#5). It may be that they are (were?) doing things small to start to learn a bit more before ramping up. Just yesterday (1/15) they announced a major investment for EVs in Ontario: * https://www.thespec.com/ts/business/2021/01/15/gm-canada-announces-tentative-deal-for-1-billion-electric-vehicle-plant-in-ontario.html https://www.thespec.com/ts/business/2021/01/15/gm-canada-ann... There could also be friction given GM's large dealership network about profits: service departments are needed much less with EVs compare to ICE vehicles. I think things will change once GM announce EV SUVs and pick-up trucks. How knows when that will be though.

csours 6y ago
https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev https://www.autonews.com/dealers/about-150-cadillac-dealers-taking-buyouts-report-says https://www.autonews.com/dealers/about-150-cadillac-dealers-... Disclaimer: I work for GM. I don't work on any EV specific programs.

perardi 6y ago

I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design of the Bolt. “You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let’s go for that for our big re-entry into the EV market.”

acct776 6y ago
They were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them retain market strength longer. Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious ventures in.
- perardi 6y ago
  Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know they’ll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as much of a nerd pod as possible. (And there’s a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that ain’t Chevy’s market, no sir.)
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM. GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla have taken battery temp management and lifespans seriously. GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. They are not producing compliance cars. Unlike Tesla they are responsible to their shareholders, and have to pay a dividend. So they make and sell what is profitable. The EV thing, they are limited by battery supplies and market demand, but they are well positioned to do better than the others once those obstacles are surmounted. The Bolt is a good vehicle. It's not in a form factor I love, but the tech in it is excellent.
    - somerandomqaguy 6y ago
      GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020 and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on Cadilliac branded EV's first. I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to create a production line, and then take a loss per unit sold other then for compliance. [1]https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/ [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-money-off-electric-cars-until-next-decade.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-mon...

danans 6y ago

> But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive because many are both threatened by the Bolt and ignorant of it. With good reason. EVs, thanks to their mechanical simplicity and resulting lower maintenance costs, present a major problem for traditional dealers who are reliant on maintenance revenue for EV engines. There is also cultural friction resulting from the use of petroleum becoming an identity politics issue for many - with particular constituencies (like auto dealerships and oil companies) having their interests tied to petroleum based vehicle technology. The grassroots expressions of this include the "ICE-ing" of EV chargers [1]. This identity dimension has increased as petroleum gradually loses its actual product advantages (rapid fueling being the most significant). 1. https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/ram-1500-that-identifies-as-a-prius-tries-sipping-electrons-at-tesla-supercharger-station/ https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/ram-1500-that-identifies-a... https://www.techspot.com/news/78089-tesla-hating-pickup-drivers-blocking-charging-stations-but.html https://www.techspot.com/news/78089-tesla-hating-pickup-driv...

refurb 6y ago
I don’t buy dealership that dealerships don’t like EVs because they make less money on repairs. A lot of the work dealers do is warranty work (paid my mfr). Warranty work is due to manufacturer defect and defects can happen with ICE vehicles or EVs. Just look at the build quality issues Tesla was having. Maintenance and repair issues go far beyond the engine. Power train, electrical, doors, windows, brakes, lighting - all of which EVs still have. Yeah, it’s great when you don’t need an oil or filter change twice a year, but that’s about all the maintenance an ICE needs.
- zamfi 6y ago
  The reality is less important than the perception, though. The perception among laypeople is that EVs are less maintenance than ICEs, even though that may only be marginally true. The perception among dealership staff likely matches this.
- tialaramex 6y ago