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iirc, biosphere failed because the concrete absorbed carbon dioxide and caused crop failure. interestingly, this allowed Dr Roy Walford et al to study calorie r

iirc, biosphere failed because the concrete absorbed carbon dioxide and caused crop failure. interestingly, this allowed Dr Roy Walford et al to study calorie restricted optimal nutrition (CRON) diets and discover their effects, slowing the aging process.

LatteLazy 6y ago
Edit: sorry, rereading this it sounds a bit abrasive. That wasn't my intent. I'd never actually read up on it till I read your comment and wondered how concrete absorbed CO2. It was a fun 30min of Wikipedia! I thank you for the distraction! The concrete absorbed oxygen not CO2. I don't think there was a crop failure so much as too many people, not enough plants? Apparently they also miscalculated the amount of sunlight coming through the windows and so the amount of photosynthesis occurring, so maybe that is form of crop failure: does X grams of crop have fewer calories in of its been light deprived? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2
- joncp 6y ago
  Interesting read. I was surprised to find Steve Bannon's name in there.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  They ended up growing and eating so much sweet potatoes that they turned orange after a while. They had to pump oxygen into the biosphere 2 This is a fantastic read https://dartmouthalumnimagazine.com/articles/biosphere-2-what-really-happened https://dartmouthalumnimagazine.com/articles/biosphere-2-wha... [..] Microbes in our organically enriched soils had produced carbon dioxide at a greater rate than our young plants could produce oxygen via photosynthesis. We discovered that most of the missing oxygen was converted to CO2 and had been absorbed by the unsealed concrete in our habitat.[..]
vzvz 6y ago
Evidence that CRON diet slows down the aging process is pretty weak.
nradov 6y ago
We don't really know whether the aging process has slowed. Some biomarkers changed but that doesn't necessarily indicate a longer life.
dghughes 6y ago
On the BBC there was an episode where CRON was discussed. It showed a man who peeled an apple threw away the apple and ate the peelings. It seems bizarre but I think this will be a trend in a few years. It ticks boxes of less food waste, less bulk, high nutrition, ultra low calories. Whether it works or not who knows since many diets tend to be for status not health; veganism with its absence of B12, Atkins with its high fat, Paleo based on inaccurate pre-history.
- avmich 6y ago
  A lot of people use diets for health, not for status. E.g. vegans often supplement B12 externally.
  - dghughes 6y ago
    But that's the issue vegans can't live without artificially supplementing with B12. To me that shows the vegan diet is not valid or survivable. If you were on a desert island or stuck in a remote location and were vegan you'd be dead after a few years from B12 deficiency.
- philbo 6y ago
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-20122013-3-eat-fast-and-live-longer https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-20122...
- baxtr 6y ago
  How do you reconcile “He threw the apple away” and “Less food waste”?
  - dghughes 6y ago
    Not just that apple but overall the fewer calories of CRON means less food consumed.
- lldbg 6y ago
  For a billion people, calories is the most important nutrition
beaner 6y ago
Concrete absorbs carbon dioxide even after it's set? Shouldn't it like... grow, then? From accumulated carbon? Don't mean to waive you off or anything, just never heard this before and it doesn't seem to make sense at first listen.
- elihu 6y ago
  I don't much about biosphere 2 specifically, but I have read that concrete absorbs CO2 over long timescales. Hundred-year-old concrete is chemically different than it was when it was a month old. I don't know if it gets denser, or if the CO2 replaces something else.
- snypher 6y ago
  Concrete samples from inside and outside the structure showed strikingly different levels of calcium carbonate, which was rapidly being formed inside the domes as huge amounts of carbon dioxide reacted with calcium hydroxide in the concrete. ... Severinghaus said of the calcium carbonate. "It's 10 times more than outside." From https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/05/science/too-rich-a-soil-scientists-find-the-flaw-that-undid-the-biosphere.html https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/05/science/too-rich-a-soil-s...
  - beaner 6y ago
    But how much was it relative to the total volume of concrete?
- krisoft 6y ago
  “ Concrete continues to set and cure for months and years, increasing its strength over time. It's a long-lived giant chemical reaction that continues on long after it has set.” Source: https://interestingengineering.com/why-concrete-doesnt-actually-dry-out https://interestingengineering.com/why-concrete-doesnt-actua...
  - beaner 6y ago
    But it continues to take up the same volume of space, so isn't there a limit to how much carbon dioxide it can remove from the atmosphere and store?

LatteLazy 6y ago

Edit: sorry, rereading this it sounds a bit abrasive. That wasn't my intent. I'd never actually read up on it till I read your comment and wondered how concrete absorbed CO2. It was a fun 30min of Wikipedia! I thank you for the distraction! The concrete absorbed oxygen not CO2. I don't think there was a crop failure so much as too many people, not enough plants? Apparently they also miscalculated the amount of sunlight coming through the windows and so the amount of photosynthesis occurring, so maybe that is form of crop failure: does X grams of crop have fewer calories in of its been light deprived? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2

joncp 6y ago
Interesting read. I was surprised to find Steve Bannon's name in there.
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
They ended up growing and eating so much sweet potatoes that they turned orange after a while. They had to pump oxygen into the biosphere 2 This is a fantastic read https://dartmouthalumnimagazine.com/articles/biosphere-2-what-really-happened https://dartmouthalumnimagazine.com/articles/biosphere-2-wha... [..] Microbes in our organically enriched soils had produced carbon dioxide at a greater rate than our young plants could produce oxygen via photosynthesis. We discovered that most of the missing oxygen was converted to CO2 and had been absorbed by the unsealed concrete in our habitat.[..]

vzvz 6y ago

Evidence that CRON diet slows down the aging process is pretty weak.

nradov 6y ago

We don't really know whether the aging process has slowed. Some biomarkers changed but that doesn't necessarily indicate a longer life.

dghughes 6y ago

On the BBC there was an episode where CRON was discussed. It showed a man who peeled an apple threw away the apple and ate the peelings. It seems bizarre but I think this will be a trend in a few years. It ticks boxes of less food waste, less bulk, high nutrition, ultra low calories. Whether it works or not who knows since many diets tend to be for status not health; veganism with its absence of B12, Atkins with its high fat, Paleo based on inaccurate pre-history.

avmich 6y ago
A lot of people use diets for health, not for status. E.g. vegans often supplement B12 externally.
- dghughes 6y ago
  But that's the issue vegans can't live without artificially supplementing with B12. To me that shows the vegan diet is not valid or survivable. If you were on a desert island or stuck in a remote location and were vegan you'd be dead after a few years from B12 deficiency.
philbo 6y ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-20122013-3-eat-fast-and-live-longer https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-20122...
baxtr 6y ago
How do you reconcile “He threw the apple away” and “Less food waste”?
- dghughes 6y ago
  Not just that apple but overall the fewer calories of CRON means less food consumed.
lldbg 6y ago
For a billion people, calories is the most important nutrition

beaner 6y ago

Concrete absorbs carbon dioxide even after it's set? Shouldn't it like... grow, then? From accumulated carbon? Don't mean to waive you off or anything, just never heard this before and it doesn't seem to make sense at first listen.

elihu 6y ago
I don't much about biosphere 2 specifically, but I have read that concrete absorbs CO2 over long timescales. Hundred-year-old concrete is chemically different than it was when it was a month old. I don't know if it gets denser, or if the CO2 replaces something else.
snypher 6y ago
Concrete samples from inside and outside the structure showed strikingly different levels of calcium carbonate, which was rapidly being formed inside the domes as huge amounts of carbon dioxide reacted with calcium hydroxide in the concrete. ... Severinghaus said of the calcium carbonate. "It's 10 times more than outside." From https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/05/science/too-rich-a-soil-scientists-find-the-flaw-that-undid-the-biosphere.html https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/05/science/too-rich-a-soil-s...
- beaner 6y ago
  But how much was it relative to the total volume of concrete?
krisoft 6y ago
“ Concrete continues to set and cure for months and years, increasing its strength over time. It's a long-lived giant chemical reaction that continues on long after it has set.” Source: https://interestingengineering.com/why-concrete-doesnt-actually-dry-out https://interestingengineering.com/why-concrete-doesnt-actua...
- beaner 6y ago
  But it continues to take up the same volume of space, so isn't there a limit to how much carbon dioxide it can remove from the atmosphere and store?