11 ms·

Uganda's internet Shutdown

152 points by jgrahamc 6y ago

atlasunshrugged 6y ago
Related, a few hours ago Bobi Wine (main opposition candidate) reported the military had entered his home. Unclear how the situation will play out, the incumbent is currently leading in the polls but there's been a huge amount of violence, arrests, etc. so I'm not sure one could say it's been a "free and fair" election. https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-01-15/ugandan-president-reported-leading-in-early-election-results https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-01-15/uganda...
- gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
  sadly, HN does not care about politics or real world, just the blinky lights and their 1s and 0s.
  - medium_burrito 6y ago
    I resent that! I care about $$$ from adtech too.
  - frenchy 6y ago
    While it's true that few of us remotely understand what life is like for most people, I don't think it's fair to say that none of us care. For the most part, we don't have the slightest clue of how to even help.
    - codebolt 6y ago
      HN has a giant global user base. Wouldn't be surprised to find more than a few west Africans here. As for myself, here in northern Europe I'm a lead developer in finance/banking, but for a few weeks a year I'm a farmer in Nigeria. Just because someone is a geek for technical stuff, doesn't mean they have to have such a limited perspective on the rest of the world.
      - exolymph 6y ago
        My bet is that HN traffic is power-law skewed toward the USA with Europe as a runner-up and then a long tail of everywhere else.
      - ny2ko 6y ago
        I'm not quite sure why you picked west africans. I'd hope there's africans from all over the continent on here. Personally I'm east african
      - frenchy 6y ago
        For sure. I'm not American myself, and I also grew up as an ex-pat in a 3rd world country. While it certainly gave me some perspective, I wouldn't say for a moment that I really understand what it's like to be them. If things got really bad, my family was always in the position to escape.
  - dang 6y ago
    There are tons of political discussions on HN. It's a difficult area, because some is on topic while some tends to turn into flamewar that destroys what the site is supposed to be for—but none of that has to do with the community "not caring". Please don't post unsubstantive flamebait, and please don't post supercilious dismissals. It would be nice if you'd stick to the site guidelines so we don't have to keep banning you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
      that's cool and all, but i was pointing a fact about the audience (case in point, it was the bottom comment on the thread). And I didn't put it in a way that gave away if I i think that is a feature or a bug :) take it easy.
      - exolymph 6y ago
        It should not surprise you that a group of people who mostly live across the world from Uganda is only intermittently interested in Uganda.
- cromulent 6y ago
  The Guardian did a nice podcast about Bobi Wine on Thursday. https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/jan/14/bobi-wine-the-reggae-singer-vying-to-be-ugandas-next-president https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/jan/14/bobi-wine...
xapata 6y ago
For all you Bitcoiners talking about how it's impossible for a government to turn off the internet, this appears to be a counter-example.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Turning off the internet isn't impossible per-se, it's just very difficult without disastrous effects on the local economy. I don't know how developed Uganda is, but I can tell you for sure that if the internet is blocked in the US or any major European country, everything stops, including real-life things such as card payments and even airport timetable signs (interesting fact: most of the UK ones run a Chrome instance displaying a webpage hosted by a Romanian company). Even if access to national services is unaffected, those services themselves depend on various SaaSes that would be affected by the international blocking.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    > it's just very difficult It's really really simple, as shown by Uganda, Egypt, Pakistan, Turkey, India and many more countries.
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      Iran, last year. Internet was out for like two weeks.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      My intent was to say it's difficult without incurring major side-effects to the economy. I've updated my comment to clarify. Of course, if you don't have a significant economy to begin with or something else has already disrupted it (riots, uprising, etc - which could also be what prompts you to shut down the internet) then it's not a problem.
      - freeone3000 6y ago
        Or you simply value control over money. The economy is not the primary goal of everyone, not even all governments.
samkater 6y ago
Does anybody have good overview/resources to learn more about how the internet "pipes" are configured at a national level? I can understand conceptually how a government could disable internet connectivity to _outside_ the country by having some control over the connections that cross borders. _Inside_ the country you would need to have control over the internal routing mechanisms as well, assuming the DNS lookups could all happen in-country? (this is not my field/I don't know the correct terminology). How would people with satellite internet connectivity be impacted (I assume there is some government entity able to turn off a satellite, but that probably only applies to a few countries in the world?)? EDIT: I should have thought about this for a few more minutes before posting the original question - the shutting down ISPs is glaringly obvious in hindsight... I am still interested in hearing people's thoughts on satellite internet, though. HN occasionally talks about initiatives to have LEO satellites provide internet access. If the people running the satellite were outside of your jurisdiction, it would seem like these instances would be mitigated for many places in the world?
- xxpor 6y ago
  Another option is turning off the upstream side of eyeball connections. Basically, shutting off DLAMS, CMTS, etc.
- kortilla 6y ago
  Government just calls ISPs and tells them to shut stuff down or face charges. > there is some government entity able to turn off a satellite, but that probably only applies to a few countries in the world A satellite internet provider can’t provide service to a country without the complying with its government rules (assuming there is any kind of trade relationship between the country and the country of the satellite internet provider).
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > assuming there is any kind of trade relationship between the country and the country of the satellite internet provider Assuming the other country has something worth trading for. I imagine Uganda wouldn’t really have anything to bargain with the US if a US satellite internet company rejected Uganda’s request.
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
It's sad to see what has happened to Uganda. I lived there in '72 and '73. We had to leave in a hurry. It's one of the most beautiful nations on Earth. Absolutely stunning. Except for all the skulls. Bad Things Happened there, and it has never recovered. It has become a haven for religious crackpots. They had a Jonestown-type thing, a number of years ago, and it's a really, really bad place to be gay (even closeted).
- afandian 6y ago
  I can confirm, having spent some time there 15 years ago. The daily headlines about police busts of homosexuals was terrifying. At some point Bob Geldorf called on Musevini to resign. The Ugandan papers carried knee jerk headlines of "is Geldorf gay?". It would have been comical had they not reflected a grim pervasive homiphobia.
- nomel 6y ago
  > it's a really, really bad place to be gay (even closeted). From what you saw, does this result in amplified masculinity, sexism, or gender roles?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    I don't know if it "resulted" in anything, or was the "result" of that kind of stuff. Africa's a very complicated place. In any case, it wasn't the issue, when I lived there. All that happened afterwards. When I was there, this nice chap called Idi Amin was throwing a party, and we decided to tender our regrets.
- ravenstine 6y ago
  > it's a really, really bad place to be gay (even closeted). Given that's where the "eat da poo poo" video originated, I'm not surprised.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  > It has become a haven for religious crackpots. They had a Jonestown-type thing, a number of years ago, and it's a really, really bad place to be gay (even closeted). It would be remiss to avoid mentioning that American Evangelical "Missionaries" were a (if not the) driving force[1] behind the clampdown on gay folk in Uganda - perhaps you were alluding to them when you said it's became a haven for them ;) 1. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-anti-gay-law-uganda/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-an...
dang 6y ago
Recent and related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25704433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25704433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25752875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25752875
- juststeve 6y ago
  Here is a new interview with the current leader: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/15/africa/bobi-wine-home-siege-intl/index.html?utm_source=twcnnbrk&utm_content=2021-01-15T14%3A44%3A37&utm_medium=social&utm_term=link https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/15/africa/bobi-wine-home-sie...
einpoklum 6y ago
It seems there is a bit of traffic left. Is that only government-sanctioned networks/stations? Or perhaps, people who don't go through the large ISPs?
02020202 6y ago
this is great. no outside influence(bigtech+msm). that's how it should be everywhere.
miga 6y ago
I just looked at the cached version of the UCC act 2013, and it seems that section 56 explicitly forbids switching off the service for any other reasons than failure to pay the dues. The cached version is still on Google...
markdown 6y ago
The only way around this for countries where the rule of law is weak is Starlink.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  Importation or possession of a Starlink terminal will be made illegal (or controlled). You can't solve policy problems with tech without addressing root issues, especially around gadgets that emit radio signals in order to operate.
ckdarby 6y ago
I'm looking forward to more countries opening the door to Starlink for the economy boast and access to their people but also to reduce the chances of this happening. If there was a ground station outside of the country the shutdown wouldn't have had an affect unless they tried to police each person running the dish during the ban.

152 points by jgrahamc 6y ago

Related, a few hours ago Bobi Wine (main opposition candidate) reported the military had entered his home. Unclear how the situation will play out, the incumbent is currently leading in the polls but there's been a huge amount of violence, arrests, etc. so I'm not sure one could say it's been a "free and fair" election. https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-01-15/ugandan-president-reported-leading-in-early-election-results https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-01-15/uganda...

gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
sadly, HN does not care about politics or real world, just the blinky lights and their 1s and 0s.
- medium_burrito 6y ago
  I resent that! I care about $$$ from adtech too.
- frenchy 6y ago
  While it's true that few of us remotely understand what life is like for most people, I don't think it's fair to say that none of us care. For the most part, we don't have the slightest clue of how to even help.
  - codebolt 6y ago
    HN has a giant global user base. Wouldn't be surprised to find more than a few west Africans here. As for myself, here in northern Europe I'm a lead developer in finance/banking, but for a few weeks a year I'm a farmer in Nigeria. Just because someone is a geek for technical stuff, doesn't mean they have to have such a limited perspective on the rest of the world.
    - exolymph 6y ago
      My bet is that HN traffic is power-law skewed toward the USA with Europe as a runner-up and then a long tail of everywhere else.
    - ny2ko 6y ago
      I'm not quite sure why you picked west africans. I'd hope there's africans from all over the continent on here. Personally I'm east african
    - frenchy 6y ago
      For sure. I'm not American myself, and I also grew up as an ex-pat in a 3rd world country. While it certainly gave me some perspective, I wouldn't say for a moment that I really understand what it's like to be them. If things got really bad, my family was always in the position to escape.
- dang 6y ago
  There are tons of political discussions on HN. It's a difficult area, because some is on topic while some tends to turn into flamewar that destroys what the site is supposed to be for—but none of that has to do with the community "not caring". Please don't post unsubstantive flamebait, and please don't post supercilious dismissals. It would be nice if you'd stick to the site guidelines so we don't have to keep banning you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
    that's cool and all, but i was pointing a fact about the audience (case in point, it was the bottom comment on the thread). And I didn't put it in a way that gave away if I i think that is a feature or a bug :) take it easy.
    - exolymph 6y ago
      It should not surprise you that a group of people who mostly live across the world from Uganda is only intermittently interested in Uganda.
cromulent 6y ago
The Guardian did a nice podcast about Bobi Wine on Thursday. https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/jan/14/bobi-wine-the-reggae-singer-vying-to-be-ugandas-next-president https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/jan/14/bobi-wine...

xapata 6y ago

For all you Bitcoiners talking about how it's impossible for a government to turn off the internet, this appears to be a counter-example.

Nextgrid 6y ago
Turning off the internet isn't impossible per-se, it's just very difficult without disastrous effects on the local economy. I don't know how developed Uganda is, but I can tell you for sure that if the internet is blocked in the US or any major European country, everything stops, including real-life things such as card payments and even airport timetable signs (interesting fact: most of the UK ones run a Chrome instance displaying a webpage hosted by a Romanian company). Even if access to national services is unaffected, those services themselves depend on various SaaSes that would be affected by the international blocking.
- iso1631 6y ago
  > it's just very difficult It's really really simple, as shown by Uganda, Egypt, Pakistan, Turkey, India and many more countries.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    Iran, last year. Internet was out for like two weeks.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    My intent was to say it's difficult without incurring major side-effects to the economy. I've updated my comment to clarify. Of course, if you don't have a significant economy to begin with or something else has already disrupted it (riots, uprising, etc - which could also be what prompts you to shut down the internet) then it's not a problem.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      Or you simply value control over money. The economy is not the primary goal of everyone, not even all governments.

samkater 6y ago

Does anybody have good overview/resources to learn more about how the internet "pipes" are configured at a national level? I can understand conceptually how a government could disable internet connectivity to _outside_ the country by having some control over the connections that cross borders. _Inside_ the country you would need to have control over the internal routing mechanisms as well, assuming the DNS lookups could all happen in-country? (this is not my field/I don't know the correct terminology). How would people with satellite internet connectivity be impacted (I assume there is some government entity able to turn off a satellite, but that probably only applies to a few countries in the world?)? EDIT: I should have thought about this for a few more minutes before posting the original question - the shutting down ISPs is glaringly obvious in hindsight... I am still interested in hearing people's thoughts on satellite internet, though. HN occasionally talks about initiatives to have LEO satellites provide internet access. If the people running the satellite were outside of your jurisdiction, it would seem like these instances would be mitigated for many places in the world?

xxpor 6y ago
Another option is turning off the upstream side of eyeball connections. Basically, shutting off DLAMS, CMTS, etc.
kortilla 6y ago
Government just calls ISPs and tells them to shut stuff down or face charges. > there is some government entity able to turn off a satellite, but that probably only applies to a few countries in the world A satellite internet provider can’t provide service to a country without the complying with its government rules (assuming there is any kind of trade relationship between the country and the country of the satellite internet provider).
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  > assuming there is any kind of trade relationship between the country and the country of the satellite internet provider Assuming the other country has something worth trading for. I imagine Uganda wouldn’t really have anything to bargain with the US if a US satellite internet company rejected Uganda’s request.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

It's sad to see what has happened to Uganda. I lived there in '72 and '73. We had to leave in a hurry. It's one of the most beautiful nations on Earth. Absolutely stunning. Except for all the skulls. Bad Things Happened there, and it has never recovered. It has become a haven for religious crackpots. They had a Jonestown-type thing, a number of years ago, and it's a really, really bad place to be gay (even closeted).

afandian 6y ago
I can confirm, having spent some time there 15 years ago. The daily headlines about police busts of homosexuals was terrifying. At some point Bob Geldorf called on Musevini to resign. The Ugandan papers carried knee jerk headlines of "is Geldorf gay?". It would have been comical had they not reflected a grim pervasive homiphobia.
nomel 6y ago
> it's a really, really bad place to be gay (even closeted). From what you saw, does this result in amplified masculinity, sexism, or gender roles?
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  I don't know if it "resulted" in anything, or was the "result" of that kind of stuff. Africa's a very complicated place. In any case, it wasn't the issue, when I lived there. All that happened afterwards. When I was there, this nice chap called Idi Amin was throwing a party, and we decided to tender our regrets.
ravenstine 6y ago
> it's a really, really bad place to be gay (even closeted). Given that's where the "eat da poo poo" video originated, I'm not surprised.
sangnoir 6y ago
> It has become a haven for religious crackpots. They had a Jonestown-type thing, a number of years ago, and it's a really, really bad place to be gay (even closeted). It would be remiss to avoid mentioning that American Evangelical "Missionaries" were a (if not the) driving force[1] behind the clampdown on gay folk in Uganda - perhaps you were alluding to them when you said it's became a haven for them ;) 1. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-anti-gay-law-uganda/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-an...

dang 6y ago

Recent and related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25704433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25704433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25752875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25752875

juststeve 6y ago
Here is a new interview with the current leader: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/15/africa/bobi-wine-home-siege-intl/index.html?utm_source=twcnnbrk&utm_content=2021-01-15T14%3A44%3A37&utm_medium=social&utm_term=link https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/15/africa/bobi-wine-home-sie...

einpoklum 6y ago

It seems there is a bit of traffic left. Is that only government-sanctioned networks/stations? Or perhaps, people who don't go through the large ISPs?

02020202 6y ago

this is great. no outside influence(bigtech+msm). that's how it should be everywhere.

miga 6y ago

I just looked at the cached version of the UCC act 2013, and it seems that section 56 explicitly forbids switching off the service for any other reasons than failure to pay the dues. The cached version is still on Google...

markdown 6y ago

The only way around this for countries where the rule of law is weak is Starlink.

sangnoir 6y ago
Importation or possession of a Starlink terminal will be made illegal (or controlled). You can't solve policy problems with tech without addressing root issues, especially around gadgets that emit radio signals in order to operate.

ckdarby 6y ago

I'm looking forward to more countries opening the door to Starlink for the economy boast and access to their people but also to reduce the chances of this happening. If there was a ground station outside of the country the shutdown wouldn't have had an affect unless they tried to police each person running the dish during the ban.