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>ing is great, has made important and significant strides, it's not a yet science. It involves essentially a series of sophisticated, mathematically informed re

by sgt101 6y ago

>ing is great, has made important and significant strides, it's not a yet science. It involves essentially a series of sophisticated, mathematically informed recipes for feeding data to giant algorithms and having them create something useful (maybe very useful but still). So... scientists need to do scienceing until it is. This is what happened with Biology over the last 50 years after 2000 years of pinning things on cards and putting them in draws.

joe_the_user 6y ago
My original point was in response to OP's saying that not every paper needs to be brilliant. The thing about "normal science" is that begins with more or less verified theories and extends their theory and practice - until they fail, reach the edge of the theories, and the science community must search for alternative hypotheses. Machine learning is more working with a bunch of practices, rules of thumb and suggestions for doing practices. These can't really fail since they're roughly repeating themselves in different domains. The problem is that can be done forever and you never need new theories or approaches. So I'd claim we're really at the situation right now, at the exploring new ideas, the "crisis of science" phase where essentially people have to start brainstorming (and not all ideas are good here either but they need to be somewhat original). All this is using Thomas Kuhn's Structure Of Scientific Revolutions model very roughly.
- sgt101 6y ago
  Yeah - SVM were considered to be optimal, then they got smashed by deep networks, now people keep bringing them back and saying "they are just as good" and yet deep networks keep being used to do all the breakthrough work.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  > An analogy from a couple years ago is bridge building before physics. You accumulate rules of thumb, you get a vague understand what works. You get better. But you aren't producing a systematic field. This would be more like Kuhn's pre-paradigmatic (pre-scientific) activity, than moving from one scientific paradigm to another ? https://samzdat.com/2018/05/19/science-under-high-modernism/ https://samzdat.com/2018/05/19/science-under-high-modernism/ (I don't know which one is more appropriate here.)
- b3kart 6y ago
  Thanks for your comment. I should go and read someone who’s actually studied the phenomenon, instead of making conjectures.

by sgt101 6y ago

joe_the_user 6y ago

My original point was in response to OP's saying that not every paper needs to be brilliant. The thing about "normal science" is that begins with more or less verified theories and extends their theory and practice - until they fail, reach the edge of the theories, and the science community must search for alternative hypotheses. Machine learning is more working with a bunch of practices, rules of thumb and suggestions for doing practices. These can't really fail since they're roughly repeating themselves in different domains. The problem is that can be done forever and you never need new theories or approaches. So I'd claim we're really at the situation right now, at the exploring new ideas, the "crisis of science" phase where essentially people have to start brainstorming (and not all ideas are good here either but they need to be somewhat original). All this is using Thomas Kuhn's Structure Of Scientific Revolutions model very roughly.

sgt101 6y ago
Yeah - SVM were considered to be optimal, then they got smashed by deep networks, now people keep bringing them back and saying "they are just as good" and yet deep networks keep being used to do all the breakthrough work.
BlueTemplar 6y ago
> An analogy from a couple years ago is bridge building before physics. You accumulate rules of thumb, you get a vague understand what works. You get better. But you aren't producing a systematic field. This would be more like Kuhn's pre-paradigmatic (pre-scientific) activity, than moving from one scientific paradigm to another ? https://samzdat.com/2018/05/19/science-under-high-modernism/ https://samzdat.com/2018/05/19/science-under-high-modernism/ (I don't know which one is more appropriate here.)
b3kart 6y ago
Thanks for your comment. I should go and read someone who’s actually studied the phenomenon, instead of making conjectures.