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To save everyone else from a google, the median plumber income in 2019 was $55,160 according the BLS (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbe

To save everyone else from a google, the median plumber income in 2019 was $55,160 according the BLS (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm#:~:text=%2439%2C810-,The%20median%20annual%20wage%20for%20plumbers%2C%20pipefitters%2C%20and%20steamfitters%20was,percent%20earned%20more%20than%20%2497%2C170 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers...).

ska 6y ago
Which is about 1/2 the equivalent stat for software devs (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...)
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  Surprising how the BLS numbers seem so far off from what's seen on Levels.fyi. Possible explanations: they only factor in base salary (no RSUs or bonuses), the bay area employs a proportionally small number of SWEs (such that the median is reflective of other, cheaper areas), or non-traditional jobs are getting grouped with SWEs as a single career category.
  - ska 6y ago
    levels.fyi is not really a good representation of income for even the Bay area, let alone the industry as a whole. I don't know why people get confused by this; most people working SWE in the bay area will never see a vaunted Levels.fyi equivalent salary (although most of them will exceed national averages for software). Basing your understanding of software salaries across the industry on levels.fyi is a bit like basing an understanding of national lawyer salaries on a sampling from top NYC corporate law firms. (NB there is some sprinkling of other useful salary info on levels.fyi, but people focus on the FAANG and similar companies, and the data is much better there)
    - JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
      People conflate the fact with simply desiring that sort of salary; pointing to Levels provides the justification for demanding top-of-market wages. It's not that we deny the existence of lower-paid SWE's, we just place less emphasis on them when evaluating our financial ambitions in the context of our careers. (If I'll be working 40+ hours regardless of company, might as well maximize wages).
  - nostrademons 6y ago
    Levels.fyi is heavily biased toward companies where tech is their primary business. There are a lot of software engineers working in support roles for "old line" businesses that don't value or pay their software engineers nearly as well. My wife works for a charitable foundation, and continuously complains about the quality of their software. Once she asked her IT director why they can't get someone like me in to just fix it, and her IT director was like "We can't afford someone like your husband."
    - Rastonbury 6y ago
      Do many SWEs not know that IT department staff are paid way less than them?
    - ryandrake 6y ago
      > Levels.fyi is heavily biased toward companies where tech is their primary business. They are also (AFAIK) based to a large degree on self reporting which you have to imagine would skew high. If I had an amazing salary I’d want to self report it and tell levels and HN all about it. If I have a normal salary, maybe I keep that to myself. Anecdotally I’ve worked at two companies featured on levels.FYI and my total comp was nowhere near what they were reporting for similar roles... like 50-66%—they were waaaay off. Either I am consistently grossly underpaid or levels biases high.
      - reducesuffering 6y ago
        Your issue might be the “similar roles.” Software engineer numbers on levels is very accurate, but don’t expect a similar role to pay similar, they’re not comparable.
      - comp_throw7 6y ago
        Levels.fyi is basically spot-on for my company, despite it having a relatively small # of reports, and is also accurate for friends of mine who work at larger companies (FAANG). But, as another reply said, some places will have vastly different pay scales for "similar roles" to SWE - for example, it's known that Facebook pays Data Engineers less than Software Engineers at the same level (mostly by giving them fewer RSUs). If anything, I would say Levels.fyi underrepresents average total comp for many of the listed companies, because: 1) they don't take into account refreshers, where given, and 2) they don't take into account stock growth (which, yes, is not guaranteed, but it wouldn't be _unreasonable_ from a perspective of estimating Expected Value to assume whatever RSUs you get will track overall market growth, just with more volatility)
- dr-detroit 6y ago
  yeah but the software devs get their salary debited directly to india for tax purposes and their stipend is actually fairly modest
rhodozelia 6y ago
Around here you are lucky if you can get a plumber to come and they are $100/hr minimum 1hr with a $50 callout charge. Your plumbers should move to Vancouver
- SilverCurve 6y ago
  He doesn't get paid that for 40 hours per week though, there's lot of waiting around.
  - rhodozelia 6y ago
    I’d love to double my rate and have to work half as much
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Employed plumbers have more work than hands.
paxys 6y ago
So...not that surprising
livearchivist 6y ago
We just did an extensive remodel of our house, which was around $200k to complete. I had lots of conversations with the tradesmen involved. The master tradesmen, plumber and electrician specifically, each made between $130k and $150k in 2018. They’re also actively turning down work and begging for help that’s worth a damn. The general contractor easily makes north of $200k, judging from his lifestyle compared to ours. For reference, this is Columbus Ohio. So while the median income listed above is a great income, the upper end of incomes for tradesmen can be quite high.

ska 6y ago

Which is about 1/2 the equivalent stat for software devs (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...)

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
Surprising how the BLS numbers seem so far off from what's seen on Levels.fyi. Possible explanations: they only factor in base salary (no RSUs or bonuses), the bay area employs a proportionally small number of SWEs (such that the median is reflective of other, cheaper areas), or non-traditional jobs are getting grouped with SWEs as a single career category.
- ska 6y ago
  levels.fyi is not really a good representation of income for even the Bay area, let alone the industry as a whole. I don't know why people get confused by this; most people working SWE in the bay area will never see a vaunted Levels.fyi equivalent salary (although most of them will exceed national averages for software). Basing your understanding of software salaries across the industry on levels.fyi is a bit like basing an understanding of national lawyer salaries on a sampling from top NYC corporate law firms. (NB there is some sprinkling of other useful salary info on levels.fyi, but people focus on the FAANG and similar companies, and the data is much better there)
  - JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
    People conflate the fact with simply desiring that sort of salary; pointing to Levels provides the justification for demanding top-of-market wages. It's not that we deny the existence of lower-paid SWE's, we just place less emphasis on them when evaluating our financial ambitions in the context of our careers. (If I'll be working 40+ hours regardless of company, might as well maximize wages).
- nostrademons 6y ago
  Levels.fyi is heavily biased toward companies where tech is their primary business. There are a lot of software engineers working in support roles for "old line" businesses that don't value or pay their software engineers nearly as well. My wife works for a charitable foundation, and continuously complains about the quality of their software. Once she asked her IT director why they can't get someone like me in to just fix it, and her IT director was like "We can't afford someone like your husband."
  - Rastonbury 6y ago
    Do many SWEs not know that IT department staff are paid way less than them?
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    > Levels.fyi is heavily biased toward companies where tech is their primary business. They are also (AFAIK) based to a large degree on self reporting which you have to imagine would skew high. If I had an amazing salary I’d want to self report it and tell levels and HN all about it. If I have a normal salary, maybe I keep that to myself. Anecdotally I’ve worked at two companies featured on levels.FYI and my total comp was nowhere near what they were reporting for similar roles... like 50-66%—they were waaaay off. Either I am consistently grossly underpaid or levels biases high.
    - reducesuffering 6y ago
      Your issue might be the “similar roles.” Software engineer numbers on levels is very accurate, but don’t expect a similar role to pay similar, they’re not comparable.
    - comp_throw7 6y ago
      Levels.fyi is basically spot-on for my company, despite it having a relatively small # of reports, and is also accurate for friends of mine who work at larger companies (FAANG). But, as another reply said, some places will have vastly different pay scales for "similar roles" to SWE - for example, it's known that Facebook pays Data Engineers less than Software Engineers at the same level (mostly by giving them fewer RSUs). If anything, I would say Levels.fyi underrepresents average total comp for many of the listed companies, because: 1) they don't take into account refreshers, where given, and 2) they don't take into account stock growth (which, yes, is not guaranteed, but it wouldn't be _unreasonable_ from a perspective of estimating Expected Value to assume whatever RSUs you get will track overall market growth, just with more volatility)
dr-detroit 6y ago
yeah but the software devs get their salary debited directly to india for tax purposes and their stipend is actually fairly modest

rhodozelia 6y ago

Around here you are lucky if you can get a plumber to come and they are $100/hr minimum 1hr with a $50 callout charge. Your plumbers should move to Vancouver

SilverCurve 6y ago
He doesn't get paid that for 40 hours per week though, there's lot of waiting around.
- rhodozelia 6y ago
  I’d love to double my rate and have to work half as much
- imtringued 6y ago
  Employed plumbers have more work than hands.

paxys 6y ago

So...not that surprising

livearchivist 6y ago

We just did an extensive remodel of our house, which was around $200k to complete. I had lots of conversations with the tradesmen involved. The master tradesmen, plumber and electrician specifically, each made between $130k and $150k in 2018. They’re also actively turning down work and begging for help that’s worth a damn. The general contractor easily makes north of $200k, judging from his lifestyle compared to ours. For reference, this is Columbus Ohio. So while the median income listed above is a great income, the upper end of incomes for tradesmen can be quite high.