3 ms·

I recall thinking of the Unabomber manifesto when I first started seeing the alt-right emerge in a big way in the early 20-teens. The alt-right and adjacent mov

by api 6y ago

I recall thinking of the Unabomber manifesto when I first started seeing the alt-right emerge in a big way in the early 20-teens. The alt-right and adjacent movements sort of do belong under the umbrella of neo-primitivism. There are a lot of ideological parallels and deep similarities in the emotional appeals. It takes me back to when I read the Unabomber manifesto online as a teenager when it was first printed. I largely rejected it, but there was this part of me that resonated with the emotional appeal to a simple world with simple ideals and a connection to nature. I knew enough to realize that this was a fantasy, but it's an appealing fantasy that also finds expression in the popularity of comic books, pseudo-medieval fantasy epics, and other forms of escapist fiction. I think what it boils down to is that we are not neurologically wired for abundance, huge scale societies, or the types of labor that pay the best in the modern world. We're not built to sit in front of screens and solve puzzles all day, and without something to struggle against parts of our emotional nature seem to go haywire. I've speculated that the immense paranoia and prevalence of all kinds of neuroses might be an emotional analogue to the hygiene hypothesis for allergies. Without real traumas and existential struggles, our emotional system starts attaching the coping mechanisms that exists for these things to other more mundane aspects of existence like politics and relationships.

chillacy 6y ago
I read it too after reading Kevin Kelly's analysis in What Technology Wants. I recall it was very meandering, not particularly well supported, and from what I understand, not very novel either. In retrospect, if Ted Kaczynski thought that he could start a movement with that much wandering text, there wasn't much hope for anything super cogent.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  Turns out he was a few decades too early.
- jbboehr 6y ago
  > not very novel either David Skirbina addresses this is his forward to Technological Slavery[0]. Ted isn't a PhD student doing research; the lack of originality to his arguments is a feature, not a bug. [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/45035203-technological-slavery https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/45035203-technologica...
anigbrowl 6y ago
I think this is a very fair analysis. Kaczynski definitely put his finger on something fundamental about the impact of technology on society. Among his fans are left-wing anarcho-primitivists as well as right wing eco-fascists and while they have fundamentally different views of tribalism and identity there's a lot of overlap between them, and it's not unknown to see people in one group drift into the other. Kaczynski has also continued to write while in prison and his work is thought-provoking notwithstanding the paradoxes involved (eg how technology has facilitated the spread of his anti-technological ideas). His views don't fit neatly into any political category.
xg15 6y ago
> with the emotional appeal to a simple world with simple ideals and a connection to nature. I mean, I can understand the appeal, but it's sort of ironic that those fantasies are exchanged and amplified using the most unnatural and complex technology we have at our disposal. I wonder if this is less a longing for "simpler times" than a longing for a society in which one has more power. > Without real traumas and existential struggles, our emotional system starts attaching the coping mechanisms that exists for these things to other more mundane aspects of existence like politics and relationships. This sounds a lot like the old nazi argument for "perpetual war": Without war, men will grow weak and complacent and society will become fragile, therefore war must never end. I think this sort of reasoning can be easily be cured by talking with an actual veteran.
- flukus 6y ago
  > I wonder if this is less a longing for "simpler times" than a longing for a society in which one has more power. I always thought it was more about control and self determination rather than power for most, something many here running linux and avoiding cloud services can naturally sympathize with. It's a very old urge with even the aristocrats of ancient Rome had similar notions, farming and getting your hands dirty was held in high esteem for instance. We also see it in Tolkiens writing about hobbits who loved farming and never craved power. It's the sort of theme that seems to be a constant desire throughout history. One of the recipients of the bitcoins is Luke Smith, I don't agree with his politics but from watching his youtube he seems to practice the self sufficiency he preaches to an extent, from growing his own food to running linux. He's a bit like Kaczynski but spends more time on his vim configuration than mail bombs. > but it's sort of ironic that those fantasies are exchanged and amplified using the most unnatural and complex technology we have at our disposal. I think in the long run technology will become sufficiently advanced to solve this paradox, anyone that desires to will be able to become fully self sufficient, we'll fire up our 3D printers to make a pencil instead of relying on the global supply chains we do now. It's either that or our psyche has to adapt to being colony animals, but after 2000 years we don't seem to be getting much closer to that.
  - rchaud 6y ago

by api 6y ago

chillacy 6y ago

I read it too after reading Kevin Kelly's analysis in What Technology Wants. I recall it was very meandering, not particularly well supported, and from what I understand, not very novel either. In retrospect, if Ted Kaczynski thought that he could start a movement with that much wandering text, there wasn't much hope for anything super cogent.

Apocryphon 6y ago
Turns out he was a few decades too early.
jbboehr 6y ago
> not very novel either David Skirbina addresses this is his forward to Technological Slavery[0]. Ted isn't a PhD student doing research; the lack of originality to his arguments is a feature, not a bug. [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/45035203-technological-slavery https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/45035203-technologica...

anigbrowl 6y ago

I think this is a very fair analysis. Kaczynski definitely put his finger on something fundamental about the impact of technology on society. Among his fans are left-wing anarcho-primitivists as well as right wing eco-fascists and while they have fundamentally different views of tribalism and identity there's a lot of overlap between them, and it's not unknown to see people in one group drift into the other. Kaczynski has also continued to write while in prison and his work is thought-provoking notwithstanding the paradoxes involved (eg how technology has facilitated the spread of his anti-technological ideas). His views don't fit neatly into any political category.

xg15 6y ago

> with the emotional appeal to a simple world with simple ideals and a connection to nature. I mean, I can understand the appeal, but it's sort of ironic that those fantasies are exchanged and amplified using the most unnatural and complex technology we have at our disposal. I wonder if this is less a longing for "simpler times" than a longing for a society in which one has more power. > Without real traumas and existential struggles, our emotional system starts attaching the coping mechanisms that exists for these things to other more mundane aspects of existence like politics and relationships. This sounds a lot like the old nazi argument for "perpetual war": Without war, men will grow weak and complacent and society will become fragile, therefore war must never end. I think this sort of reasoning can be easily be cured by talking with an actual veteran.

flukus 6y ago
> I wonder if this is less a longing for "simpler times" than a longing for a society in which one has more power. I always thought it was more about control and self determination rather than power for most, something many here running linux and avoiding cloud services can naturally sympathize with. It's a very old urge with even the aristocrats of ancient Rome had similar notions, farming and getting your hands dirty was held in high esteem for instance. We also see it in Tolkiens writing about hobbits who loved farming and never craved power. It's the sort of theme that seems to be a constant desire throughout history. One of the recipients of the bitcoins is Luke Smith, I don't agree with his politics but from watching his youtube he seems to practice the self sufficiency he preaches to an extent, from growing his own food to running linux. He's a bit like Kaczynski but spends more time on his vim configuration than mail bombs. > but it's sort of ironic that those fantasies are exchanged and amplified using the most unnatural and complex technology we have at our disposal. I think in the long run technology will become sufficiently advanced to solve this paradox, anyone that desires to will be able to become fully self sufficient, we'll fire up our 3D printers to make a pencil instead of relying on the global supply chains we do now. It's either that or our psyche has to adapt to being colony animals, but after 2000 years we don't seem to be getting much closer to that.
- rchaud 6y ago