4 ms·

I don't think drunken bar fights was ever socially acceptable anywhere but the lowest of social strata. I'd blame lifestyle changes and BPA far before I thought

by surge 6y ago

I don't think drunken bar fights was ever socially acceptable anywhere but the lowest of social strata. I'd blame lifestyle changes and BPA far before I thought exercising normal "gentlemanly" restraint caused T to dip. Also, your theory doesn't explain the anomaly of all the large muscular men who you can tell by physical appearance have high T and who are very kind and not aggressive. Bar fights have a lot more to do with environmental factors that influence behavior, like how they were raised, the same socioeconomic factors that contribute to violent crime, etc.

jolmg 6y ago
> doesn't explain the anomaly of all the large muscular men who you can tell by physical appearance have high T and who are very kind and not aggressive. I don't know the numbers, but that would mean that high T does not cause aggression, not that aggression does not cause high T.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Bodybuilders think high estrogen levels cause roid rage. Might be lies they tell themselves, might be a valid observation. On the other hand normal levels testosterone supposedly saturate receptors. Big exception is muscles.
cat199 6y ago
> I don't think drunken bar fights was ever socially acceptable anywhere but the lowest of social strata. Not how it fits in the discussion, but I'd put duelling in the same category, and this was clearly acceptable among elites when it was acceptable overall
- irrational 6y ago
  Is it really similar? Duels would be scheduled in advanced. There would be rules to be followed. I don't think I ever read about a duel involving fisticuffs. I suppose you could be saying that a duel is the posh version of a drunken bar fight, but that's like saying that a moderated debate is the posh version of a profanity filled screaming match in a bar parking lot.
- nradov 6y ago
  Even when dueling was considered acceptable upper-class behavior, most men never fought a duel. It was a drastic, last-resort kind of affair. And even when duels did occur, the duelists sometimes just went through the motions for honor's sake rather than shooting to kill.
Delk 6y ago
> Also, your theory doesn't explain the anomaly of all the large muscular men who you can tell by physical appearance have high T and who are very kind and not aggressive. I don't think higher levels of testosterone have been reliably linked to aggressive behaviour except in case of anabolic steroid abuse. Those kind people might well have high levels of testosterone.

by surge 6y ago

jolmg 6y ago

> doesn't explain the anomaly of all the large muscular men who you can tell by physical appearance have high T and who are very kind and not aggressive. I don't know the numbers, but that would mean that high T does not cause aggression, not that aggression does not cause high T.

Gibbon1 6y ago
Bodybuilders think high estrogen levels cause roid rage. Might be lies they tell themselves, might be a valid observation. On the other hand normal levels testosterone supposedly saturate receptors. Big exception is muscles.

cat199 6y ago

> I don't think drunken bar fights was ever socially acceptable anywhere but the lowest of social strata. Not how it fits in the discussion, but I'd put duelling in the same category, and this was clearly acceptable among elites when it was acceptable overall

irrational 6y ago
Is it really similar? Duels would be scheduled in advanced. There would be rules to be followed. I don't think I ever read about a duel involving fisticuffs. I suppose you could be saying that a duel is the posh version of a drunken bar fight, but that's like saying that a moderated debate is the posh version of a profanity filled screaming match in a bar parking lot.
nradov 6y ago
Even when dueling was considered acceptable upper-class behavior, most men never fought a duel. It was a drastic, last-resort kind of affair. And even when duels did occur, the duelists sometimes just went through the motions for honor's sake rather than shooting to kill.

Delk 6y ago

> Also, your theory doesn't explain the anomaly of all the large muscular men who you can tell by physical appearance have high T and who are very kind and not aggressive. I don't think higher levels of testosterone have been reliably linked to aggressive behaviour except in case of anabolic steroid abuse. Those kind people might well have high levels of testosterone.