4 ms·

Common Knowledge in the Age of Many-to-Many Broadcast Networks

35 points by longdefeat 6y ago

tannhaeuser 6y ago
Can't help to apply that model in my mind to our industry, ie to the phenomenon of "The Cloud" brainwash during most of the last decade, driven by an unholy alliance of Big Tech and Big Media, and amplified by a generation of freshman hungry for tech news and SV capital.
- bsenftner 6y ago
  Totally agree, and we'll be downvoted for our opinions. The Cloud brainwash has achieved "common knowledge" even though it's an expensive farce. Creating and operating one's own data center is easy-peasy and literally saves millions - but nooooo....
  - cyberdelica 6y ago
    Yes, I also agree, and would argue that it applies more to "the cloud" groupthink, than it does to the election riot, or Parler. After all, the Trump/Parler supporters, can hardly be claimed as self selecting balkanisation, when they've been made into pariahs, and deplatformed every which way from Sunday. The "cloud" has always had a funny smell to me, even when it first started to become popular. All tech companies should attempt to be in charge of their own destiny, by creating their own infrastructure, where at all possible.
  - pbronez 6y ago
    > Creating and operating one's own data center is easy-peasy Building, maintaining and operating data centers is not easy nor cheap. It requires expertise in everything from physical construction to thermal engineering to networking. It requires significant amounts of capital. It takes months to years to complete. Sure, many organizations have the resources and expertise to do this. But MANY more people just want to put up a web page or crunch some data. Using the cloud allows you to try things faster and with lower risk. Obviously you can save money in the long run by investing in vertical integration al the way down to the physical data center, but ONLY if you have access to the capital and you have enough demand to keep the utilization up. Oh and you have to have the management capability to handle all those contracts, recruit and manage all the relevant people, etc.
    - bsenftner 6y ago
      > Building, maintaining and operating data centers is not easy nor cheap. It requires expertise in everything from physical construction to thermal engineering to networking. It requires significant amounts of capital. It takes months to years to complete. compete with who? If you simply want to save thousands of dollars every month, start with a single 1/4 cabinet at a colo and build up from there as one's needs grow. There is no need for the extreme expense view you state. One $8K server placed in a colo pays for itself in two weeks! I am only discussing people that require computation for what they do. If you're just "showing a web page" get out of this discussion. I'm talking about people that require computation above some bloated react framework displaying pretty interfaces for consumer time wasting.
kuu 6y ago
I find interesting the point that no contradiction of a statement is considered as a validation. I think is also interesting the fact, which was not so much explored in the article, that the population of any online community is created by a higher ratio of "readers" than active users. For instance, I'm sure my message will get more votes than answers and many more views than votes :) How does this affect to the belief system?
Daniel_sk 6y ago
A bit related - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics What we are seeing with QAnon and others could be basically self-replicating ideas that started at some point and now live the live of their own, without a specific person or group of persons controlling it. Same like religion. Basically a virus (in computer or biological sense) that keeps spreading from mind to mind. Maybe it's a bit too far fetched, but there are a lot of analogies that make sense.
- bsenftner 6y ago
  I've been calling willed ignorance of truth an intellectual virus for decades. Our civilization has a lot of them, and they are just as deadly as covid-19 - most don't die, but they are transformed into something that lacks secondary considerations, and exhibits gaping holes in their world view.
  - hoseja 6y ago
    Every nation, every corporation, entire cultures are but living collections of memes with agency. And they don't much care for any one individual host.
jkhdigital 6y ago
The discussion of self-reference reminds me of Hofstadter’s strange loops. It’s almost as though people come to see the group as an extension of their own consciousness when a sufficient level of common knowledge is reached, creating the necessary conditions for irrational mob behavior.
DennisP 6y ago
Maybe prediction markets could help with this. If it were possible, on a neutral platform, to bet on topics like "would Trump serve a second term if people stormed the Capitol," then people could get an aggregated opinion that didn't just come from their own echo chamber.

35 points by longdefeat 6y ago

Can't help to apply that model in my mind to our industry, ie to the phenomenon of "The Cloud" brainwash during most of the last decade, driven by an unholy alliance of Big Tech and Big Media, and amplified by a generation of freshman hungry for tech news and SV capital.

bsenftner 6y ago
Totally agree, and we'll be downvoted for our opinions. The Cloud brainwash has achieved "common knowledge" even though it's an expensive farce. Creating and operating one's own data center is easy-peasy and literally saves millions - but nooooo....
- cyberdelica 6y ago
  Yes, I also agree, and would argue that it applies more to "the cloud" groupthink, than it does to the election riot, or Parler. After all, the Trump/Parler supporters, can hardly be claimed as self selecting balkanisation, when they've been made into pariahs, and deplatformed every which way from Sunday. The "cloud" has always had a funny smell to me, even when it first started to become popular. All tech companies should attempt to be in charge of their own destiny, by creating their own infrastructure, where at all possible.
- pbronez 6y ago
  > Creating and operating one's own data center is easy-peasy Building, maintaining and operating data centers is not easy nor cheap. It requires expertise in everything from physical construction to thermal engineering to networking. It requires significant amounts of capital. It takes months to years to complete. Sure, many organizations have the resources and expertise to do this. But MANY more people just want to put up a web page or crunch some data. Using the cloud allows you to try things faster and with lower risk. Obviously you can save money in the long run by investing in vertical integration al the way down to the physical data center, but ONLY if you have access to the capital and you have enough demand to keep the utilization up. Oh and you have to have the management capability to handle all those contracts, recruit and manage all the relevant people, etc.
  - bsenftner 6y ago
    > Building, maintaining and operating data centers is not easy nor cheap. It requires expertise in everything from physical construction to thermal engineering to networking. It requires significant amounts of capital. It takes months to years to complete. compete with who? If you simply want to save thousands of dollars every month, start with a single 1/4 cabinet at a colo and build up from there as one's needs grow. There is no need for the extreme expense view you state. One $8K server placed in a colo pays for itself in two weeks! I am only discussing people that require computation for what they do. If you're just "showing a web page" get out of this discussion. I'm talking about people that require computation above some bloated react framework displaying pretty interfaces for consumer time wasting.

kuu 6y ago

I find interesting the point that no contradiction of a statement is considered as a validation. I think is also interesting the fact, which was not so much explored in the article, that the population of any online community is created by a higher ratio of "readers" than active users. For instance, I'm sure my message will get more votes than answers and many more views than votes :) How does this affect to the belief system?

Daniel_sk 6y ago

A bit related - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics What we are seeing with QAnon and others could be basically self-replicating ideas that started at some point and now live the live of their own, without a specific person or group of persons controlling it. Same like religion. Basically a virus (in computer or biological sense) that keeps spreading from mind to mind. Maybe it's a bit too far fetched, but there are a lot of analogies that make sense.

bsenftner 6y ago
I've been calling willed ignorance of truth an intellectual virus for decades. Our civilization has a lot of them, and they are just as deadly as covid-19 - most don't die, but they are transformed into something that lacks secondary considerations, and exhibits gaping holes in their world view.
- hoseja 6y ago
  Every nation, every corporation, entire cultures are but living collections of memes with agency. And they don't much care for any one individual host.

jkhdigital 6y ago

The discussion of self-reference reminds me of Hofstadter’s strange loops. It’s almost as though people come to see the group as an extension of their own consciousness when a sufficient level of common knowledge is reached, creating the necessary conditions for irrational mob behavior.

DennisP 6y ago

Maybe prediction markets could help with this. If it were possible, on a neutral platform, to bet on topics like "would Trump serve a second term if people stormed the Capitol," then people could get an aggregated opinion that didn't just come from their own echo chamber.