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>it isn't a selling point to my mom or her friends Gargantuan battery life isn't a selling point? For laptop? In what universe?

by terafo 6y ago

tw04 6y ago
For who? My mom uses her laptop at home 99% of the time, if the battery gets low she plugs it in. She needs a battery that will last 1-2 hours for the 3 times a year she flies. You can find a place to plug in at basically any coffee shop or library you go to. My mom isn't spending 10 hours in a datacenter, so it doesn't really matter to her if the battery life is 3 hours or 12. For the average consumer, battery life has just been another stat on the spec sheet for years now.
- hollerith 6y ago
  Even if your mom doesn't care about battery life, she will probably buy a product that is also sold to buyers who do care about battery life, and if the product can meet those buyer's needs with a smaller battery, then your mom's laptop will be lighter. So, does your mom also not care about the weight of her laptop?
  - tw04 6y ago
    The Macbook air with intel CPU weighs 2.75 lbs, the Macbook air with M1 weighs 2.8 lbs. The macbook pro is 3.0 vs 3.1 lbs. The weight is a non-factor. Quite frankly until you start cracking 5lbs nobody even cares in my experience. Apple's maniacal focus on making laptops skinnier and lighter has done a disservice to the entire product line, which they seemingly acknowledged with the 16" Pro.
    - hollerith 6y ago
      Apple had the option of making the M1 Air lighter (by choosing a smaller battery) but decided instead to greatly increase battery life. The point remains that Apple has choices that vendors of laptops reliant on Intel CPUs do not have, which might end up eating into Intel's market share.
    - klelatti 6y ago
      Strongly disagree. I'm writing this on a 12" MacBook with a partly broken screen - by far my favourite machine (I have a 2020 MacBook Pro too). I'm not alone too. I expect we'll see an M series MacBook again but this time it won't be underpowered.
- frereubu 6y ago
  > For the average consumer, battery life has just been another stat on the spec sheet for years now. I'm not sure I agree with this. I think if you asked someone whether battery life was a priority, they might say no. And if you asked them to rank tech specs I'm not sure it would necessarily be that high either. But the experience of using a laptop with a noticeably better battery is, for me, quite likely to be one of those things that you didn't know you were missing, even if you just charge it every now and then.
- p1necone 6y ago
  This resonates with me too - anywhere it would be comfortable to work with my laptop is going to have somewhere to plug it in to charge.
whelming_wave 6y ago
the m1 isn’t competing on many of the same axes as an intel or amd cpu, because it’s necessarily packaged inside of an entire computer built around it. that computer is a mac, which might be different from the purchaser’s current os so they decide not to switch, or they already bought software for windows and want to use it there, or they’re married to the microsoft ecosystem, etc.
- klelatti 6y ago
  Office runs on Macs too! Seriously, I predict we will see Apple successfully attack the sub $1000 laptop market within two years. They sell the iPhone SE with an A13 for $399 so they could easily do so now they no longer have the 'Intel tax'. And the products will be a lot better than the Windows equivalents. Most home users might use Office and that's about it. The allure of the Apple ecosystem will be strong especially for iPhone users.
  - perardi 6y ago
    I’m skeptical. Apple’s bread and butter, as far as Macs go, is the MacBook Air. And by all accounts, they sell a lot of those, and will presumably sell even more, with better margins, now that they’ve gone ARM. Do they really want to undercut that with a cheaper laptop? I suppose it’s possible, if the volume/margins works out, but I’d bet they just keep plugging along with $999–$1500 13-inch laptops.
    - klelatti 6y ago
      All fair points but I think that with higher margins it tips the balance towards market share growth. Key issues are 1) can they make an acceptable margin on a good $800 laptop and 2) can they genuinely significantly grow market share rather than lowering average selling price - i.e. can they maintain distinction between $800 and $1000 products. Given what we've seen them do on iPhone and iPad I bet then answer is yes to both of these. Bear in mind too that after a generation or two they can put the last gen M chips in cheaper products.
KptMarchewa 6y ago
I'm not really sure to be honest. We've moved on from laptops that you can't watch movie on without charging few years ago. I don't really care if my laptop works for 10 hours or 15.
- Retric 6y ago
  It’s the same reason battery life is so critical in EV’s. Smaller batteries need to be charged more often which eats up more of their remaining lifespan. It’s a downward spiral that means a 50% extra lifespan up front can be worth 100% extra lifespan in 3 years. Laptop batteries are also expensive in terms of money, weight, and bulk which puts Intel into a much larger bind.
Spooky23 6y ago
For consumers? It’s a race to the bottom. Mom wants to pay $200 if anything. My in-laws do their taxes on their phone.

>it isn't a selling point to my mom or her friends Gargantuan battery life isn't a selling point? For laptop? In what universe?

by terafo 6y ago

>it isn't a selling point to my mom or her friends Gargantuan battery life isn't a selling point? For laptop? In what universe?

tw04 6y ago

For who? My mom uses her laptop at home 99% of the time, if the battery gets low she plugs it in. She needs a battery that will last 1-2 hours for the 3 times a year she flies. You can find a place to plug in at basically any coffee shop or library you go to. My mom isn't spending 10 hours in a datacenter, so it doesn't really matter to her if the battery life is 3 hours or 12. For the average consumer, battery life has just been another stat on the spec sheet for years now.

hollerith 6y ago
Even if your mom doesn't care about battery life, she will probably buy a product that is also sold to buyers who do care about battery life, and if the product can meet those buyer's needs with a smaller battery, then your mom's laptop will be lighter. So, does your mom also not care about the weight of her laptop?
- tw04 6y ago
  The Macbook air with intel CPU weighs 2.75 lbs, the Macbook air with M1 weighs 2.8 lbs. The macbook pro is 3.0 vs 3.1 lbs. The weight is a non-factor. Quite frankly until you start cracking 5lbs nobody even cares in my experience. Apple's maniacal focus on making laptops skinnier and lighter has done a disservice to the entire product line, which they seemingly acknowledged with the 16" Pro.
  - hollerith 6y ago
    Apple had the option of making the M1 Air lighter (by choosing a smaller battery) but decided instead to greatly increase battery life. The point remains that Apple has choices that vendors of laptops reliant on Intel CPUs do not have, which might end up eating into Intel's market share.
  - klelatti 6y ago
    Strongly disagree. I'm writing this on a 12" MacBook with a partly broken screen - by far my favourite machine (I have a 2020 MacBook Pro too). I'm not alone too. I expect we'll see an M series MacBook again but this time it won't be underpowered.
frereubu 6y ago
> For the average consumer, battery life has just been another stat on the spec sheet for years now. I'm not sure I agree with this. I think if you asked someone whether battery life was a priority, they might say no. And if you asked them to rank tech specs I'm not sure it would necessarily be that high either. But the experience of using a laptop with a noticeably better battery is, for me, quite likely to be one of those things that you didn't know you were missing, even if you just charge it every now and then.
p1necone 6y ago
This resonates with me too - anywhere it would be comfortable to work with my laptop is going to have somewhere to plug it in to charge.

whelming_wave 6y ago

the m1 isn’t competing on many of the same axes as an intel or amd cpu, because it’s necessarily packaged inside of an entire computer built around it. that computer is a mac, which might be different from the purchaser’s current os so they decide not to switch, or they already bought software for windows and want to use it there, or they’re married to the microsoft ecosystem, etc.

klelatti 6y ago
Office runs on Macs too! Seriously, I predict we will see Apple successfully attack the sub $1000 laptop market within two years. They sell the iPhone SE with an A13 for $399 so they could easily do so now they no longer have the 'Intel tax'. And the products will be a lot better than the Windows equivalents. Most home users might use Office and that's about it. The allure of the Apple ecosystem will be strong especially for iPhone users.
- perardi 6y ago
  I’m skeptical. Apple’s bread and butter, as far as Macs go, is the MacBook Air. And by all accounts, they sell a lot of those, and will presumably sell even more, with better margins, now that they’ve gone ARM. Do they really want to undercut that with a cheaper laptop? I suppose it’s possible, if the volume/margins works out, but I’d bet they just keep plugging along with $999–$1500 13-inch laptops.
  - klelatti 6y ago
    All fair points but I think that with higher margins it tips the balance towards market share growth. Key issues are 1) can they make an acceptable margin on a good $800 laptop and 2) can they genuinely significantly grow market share rather than lowering average selling price - i.e. can they maintain distinction between $800 and $1000 products. Given what we've seen them do on iPhone and iPad I bet then answer is yes to both of these. Bear in mind too that after a generation or two they can put the last gen M chips in cheaper products.

KptMarchewa 6y ago

I'm not really sure to be honest. We've moved on from laptops that you can't watch movie on without charging few years ago. I don't really care if my laptop works for 10 hours or 15.

Retric 6y ago
It’s the same reason battery life is so critical in EV’s. Smaller batteries need to be charged more often which eats up more of their remaining lifespan. It’s a downward spiral that means a 50% extra lifespan up front can be worth 100% extra lifespan in 3 years. Laptop batteries are also expensive in terms of money, weight, and bulk which puts Intel into a much larger bind.

Spooky23 6y ago

For consumers? It’s a race to the bottom. Mom wants to pay $200 if anything. My in-laws do their taxes on their phone.