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US university professor too. I agree with this: > Pretty much everyone is eager to get back to normal, and I'm fairly confident that this is exactly what is go

US university professor too. I agree with this: > Pretty much everyone is eager to get back to normal, and I'm fairly confident that this is exactly what is going to happen. There's no substitute for in-person education. For years, I heard from the online education cheerleaders that online can be better. Online can be a quality experience, but you can't build the same relationships, develop the same comfort with asking questions, or deliver the same set of intangibles in an online setting. That said, I think hybrid classes are probably better. Some material is better taught in an async fashion. The big limitation of in-person education is that you have no choice but to schedule a fixed block of time for meetings. The flexibility of async means students can go through certain types of material at the right pace for themselves. > it seems that startups like edX, Coursera, etc. have not really been successes These options aren't university classes. They're the next generation of textbooks.

gibspaulding 6y ago
> These options aren't university classes. They're the next generation of textbooks. Totally off topic, but if students were already paying $300 for a paper calculus book, I shudder to think of the extortion we'll see over the virtual, multimedia,cloud-optimized, probably-built-in-Adobe-Flash monstrosity that will be the "next generation of textbooks".
- asdff 6y ago
  Not to mention the university library has a couple copies of that $300 textbook on reserve for you, so if you were doing your studying at the library anyway there isn't any reason to shell out. I would even take pictures of salient chapters with my phone if I really needed to take the content home. Online only, there would be no avoiding those mandatory fees. Libraries don't have homework codes on reserve.
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
> Some material is better taught in an async fashion. Based on the experience of teaching this semester by multiple colleagues, the problem, of course, is that students will not consume that material at all. If you try to do short quizzes to ensure they watched it, they will cheat, or just take the grade penalty. The problem with online is that the the modicum of shame present in offline classes that forces them to pay some attention, is almost completely gone.
- atmosx 6y ago
  If we're going to base our educational system in shaming and pushing "knowledge" down the throat of uninterested group of ppl, then we might want to start asking "why are these ppl uninterested?" and "how we can change that?", "why uninterested parties in X took the subject", etc.
  - abdullahkhalids 6y ago
    Shame is completely natural emotion that exists in a wide variety of human social interactions to modulate behavior. Sometimes it is negative, sometimes it is positive. Here is a positive example: https://habitica.com/ https://habitica.com/ In education, fear of failing your in front of your peers or teachers is a strong motivator for most people. It is a positive thing in most such cases. > "why uninterested parties in X took the subject" As for this, it is known, that sometimes in life we have to beneficial things that we hate. Like washing the dishes. We are not "basing our educational system on it", but part of it will often be beneficial+uninteresting.
  - watwut 6y ago
    You can be generally interested in subject and still not be in mood to pay attention this week. It is completely normal for humans to have ups and downs in motivation or to find some part of material more interesting then others. Or to be tired because you stayed too late last night. It is also completely normal for humans to be disorganized or procastinate. School system that assumes that everyone is perfectly motivated, organized and disciplined at all times will fail a lot. Second, many people are motivated by social contact with other people who do the same thing. By both competition and mutual help. That is again quite normal for humans and these people will find watching videos more boring.
- dorchadas 6y ago
  Yep, this is what I've noticed at the high school level. Only the self-motivated kids, and the kids who want to learn and pass are learning and passing. The others just don't even have to give a pretense of it anymore since they're not physically there. I can only imagine how people think fully remote learning will work long term, without an overhaul in how our education system is structured (does everyone need to know algebra 2 or how to balance chemical reactions?)
nickelcitymario 6y ago
> I think hybrid classes are probably better. Back in 2000/2001, my high school was experimenting with Cisco classes. We did modules online, but the teacher was in the room to answer any questions and to oversee projects as we networked servers together, etc. It was great! I remember thinking this was the way all education should be done, and that it was inevitable that it would become the standard. I don't know that I still consider it inevitable, but it worked well. Contrast that to my experience in university... the endless lecture halls, overpriced text books, and emphasis on memorization over understanding. Absurd. Equally absurd: Online courses. I'm big on self-directed learning, but the problem with online courses is that you're on your own. This is a problem when you run into subjects where you don't even know what it is that you don't know. (You can only Google for solutions if you know what to Google in the first place.) So I like the idea of the hybrid model: Let the student take the lead, provide all the online tools needed, but do so in a supportive environment where problems can be troubleshot immediately with a teacher.
polishdude20 6y ago
The best thing to do when coming back from covid and resuming in-person classes would be to try and take the good parts of online learning and keep them. For example, every professor should record their lectures to make them available anytime. Although, I can already see a bunch of professors complaining that if the students can watch the lectures later, they won't come to the live lecture.
- asdff 6y ago
  Professors at university don't really care about attendance, since you are an adult and can make your own decisions with your education. Attendance was never tallied during my undergrad. Some of mine would make a joke of it about how the class seems to triple in population on exam day.
  - polishdude20 6y ago
    I work with professors at a university, the amount of times I've heard them complain about low attendance rates makes me think otherwise. Yes, professors don't usually TAKE attendance but they do make a big fuss when they notice half the class missing even if it's because the other half of class watches the lectures on their own time.

gibspaulding 6y ago

> These options aren't university classes. They're the next generation of textbooks. Totally off topic, but if students were already paying $300 for a paper calculus book, I shudder to think of the extortion we'll see over the virtual, multimedia,cloud-optimized, probably-built-in-Adobe-Flash monstrosity that will be the "next generation of textbooks".

asdff 6y ago
Not to mention the university library has a couple copies of that $300 textbook on reserve for you, so if you were doing your studying at the library anyway there isn't any reason to shell out. I would even take pictures of salient chapters with my phone if I really needed to take the content home. Online only, there would be no avoiding those mandatory fees. Libraries don't have homework codes on reserve.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

> Some material is better taught in an async fashion. Based on the experience of teaching this semester by multiple colleagues, the problem, of course, is that students will not consume that material at all. If you try to do short quizzes to ensure they watched it, they will cheat, or just take the grade penalty. The problem with online is that the the modicum of shame present in offline classes that forces them to pay some attention, is almost completely gone.

atmosx 6y ago
If we're going to base our educational system in shaming and pushing "knowledge" down the throat of uninterested group of ppl, then we might want to start asking "why are these ppl uninterested?" and "how we can change that?", "why uninterested parties in X took the subject", etc.
- abdullahkhalids 6y ago
  Shame is completely natural emotion that exists in a wide variety of human social interactions to modulate behavior. Sometimes it is negative, sometimes it is positive. Here is a positive example: https://habitica.com/ https://habitica.com/ In education, fear of failing your in front of your peers or teachers is a strong motivator for most people. It is a positive thing in most such cases. > "why uninterested parties in X took the subject" As for this, it is known, that sometimes in life we have to beneficial things that we hate. Like washing the dishes. We are not "basing our educational system on it", but part of it will often be beneficial+uninteresting.
- watwut 6y ago
  You can be generally interested in subject and still not be in mood to pay attention this week. It is completely normal for humans to have ups and downs in motivation or to find some part of material more interesting then others. Or to be tired because you stayed too late last night. It is also completely normal for humans to be disorganized or procastinate. School system that assumes that everyone is perfectly motivated, organized and disciplined at all times will fail a lot. Second, many people are motivated by social contact with other people who do the same thing. By both competition and mutual help. That is again quite normal for humans and these people will find watching videos more boring.
dorchadas 6y ago
Yep, this is what I've noticed at the high school level. Only the self-motivated kids, and the kids who want to learn and pass are learning and passing. The others just don't even have to give a pretense of it anymore since they're not physically there. I can only imagine how people think fully remote learning will work long term, without an overhaul in how our education system is structured (does everyone need to know algebra 2 or how to balance chemical reactions?)

nickelcitymario 6y ago

> I think hybrid classes are probably better. Back in 2000/2001, my high school was experimenting with Cisco classes. We did modules online, but the teacher was in the room to answer any questions and to oversee projects as we networked servers together, etc. It was great! I remember thinking this was the way all education should be done, and that it was inevitable that it would become the standard. I don't know that I still consider it inevitable, but it worked well. Contrast that to my experience in university... the endless lecture halls, overpriced text books, and emphasis on memorization over understanding. Absurd. Equally absurd: Online courses. I'm big on self-directed learning, but the problem with online courses is that you're on your own. This is a problem when you run into subjects where you don't even know what it is that you don't know. (You can only Google for solutions if you know what to Google in the first place.) So I like the idea of the hybrid model: Let the student take the lead, provide all the online tools needed, but do so in a supportive environment where problems can be troubleshot immediately with a teacher.

polishdude20 6y ago

The best thing to do when coming back from covid and resuming in-person classes would be to try and take the good parts of online learning and keep them. For example, every professor should record their lectures to make them available anytime. Although, I can already see a bunch of professors complaining that if the students can watch the lectures later, they won't come to the live lecture.

asdff 6y ago
Professors at university don't really care about attendance, since you are an adult and can make your own decisions with your education. Attendance was never tallied during my undergrad. Some of mine would make a joke of it about how the class seems to triple in population on exam day.
- polishdude20 6y ago
  I work with professors at a university, the amount of times I've heard them complain about low attendance rates makes me think otherwise. Yes, professors don't usually TAKE attendance but they do make a big fuss when they notice half the class missing even if it's because the other half of class watches the lectures on their own time.