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I'm surprised, because Plaid is far from the first mover in the "scraped banking data API" space. Mint (now Intuit) and Yodlee come to mind, and they use essent

I'm surprised, because Plaid is far from the first mover in the "scraped banking data API" space. Mint (now Intuit) and Yodlee come to mind, and they use essentially the same sign-in flow and come with the same limitations. There are organizations and companies that are trying to do this legitimately, through open standards and real incentives to both FIs and customers to share information in exchanges: - Open Banking Project: https://www.openbankproject.com/ https://www.openbankproject.com/ - MX: https://www.mx.com/ https://www.mx.com/ P.S. Can we get real Markdown support already? The fact that the Markdown URL format isn't supported is extremely user-hostile.

shrimp_emoji 6y ago
>P.S. Can we get real Markdown support already? The fact that the Markdown URL format isn't supported is extremely user-hostile. Hear hear! Markdown is definitely the new formatting standard, and it's amazing (I even take notes in .md files).
throwaway9980 6y ago
You're right, they aren't the first. That said, when I use accounting software, it's pretty obvious to me that I am going to be sharing my transaction history with the accounting software. When I connect my bank account to Venmo, it is absolutely not obvious to me that I'm sharing my entire transaction history with Plaid. Replicating the appearance of my bank's login screens is critical to the illusion. Even if I did understand that they are storing and using my credentials, I should be able to expect from a reputable business that they are not scraping irrelevant transaction data and then using it for purposes that don't explicitly support the app I am using. Selling my transaction history definitely isn't supporting the use case I'm authorizing.
- milesskorpen 6y ago
  Fortunately, Plaid doesn’t sell your transaction history, so this isn’t a concern.
  - Cederfjard 6y ago
    Going by what was posted further up in the thread, that seems to be what TD Bank alleges in their suit?
    - milesskorpen 6y ago
      If you authenticate with <mortgage broker> via Plaid, then the broker pays plaid money and the broker gets your bank information. So I suppose in a sense that's "selling your data," but I don't think that's what people are concerned about: You explicitly sign into the mortgage broker to give them data! What Plaid has said on record they DON'T do is take that data they provided to the broker, bundle it up, and then sell it to marketing firms or hedge funds or other random third parties for which the user didn't explicitly ask their data to be shared. See: https://www.americanbanker.com/news/lawsuit-against-plaid-heightens-focus-on-data-privacy-issues https://www.americanbanker.com/news/lawsuit-against-plaid-he... “Plaid does not sell and has never sold consumers’ personal information or data. Consumer data is obtained and used with consumer consent. Plaid believes strongly that consumers should have permission-based access to and control over their financial data, and embodies these principles in its practices." That's pretty strong language.
  - o-__-o 6y ago
    READ: https://plaid.com/legal/#consumers https://plaid.com/legal/#consumers
    - tazard 6y ago
      Any chance you could point me to something more specific? From your link I found this: > We do not sell or rent personal information that we collect.
      - sangnoir 6y ago
        Alternative title to this thread is "Plaid fails to sell customer data to Visa" (along with code, and the rest of the company). Consumers, as well as Plaid, have no idea where this data is going to end up ultimately, depending on who winds up getting control of Plaid. What are the odds of Private Equity acquiring Plaid and "leveraging synergies" with the pay-day loan company in their portfolio? I think the odds are greater than zero.
smichel17 6y ago
Re: formatting, I strongly suggest using markdown's [reference link syntax], which is much more readable when rendered as plain text. [reference link syntax]: https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/basics https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/basics
ROARosen 6y ago
From the press release: "Plaid is a financial services company that operates the leading financial data aggregation platform in the United States" I love the way they are literally defined as "the leading financial data aggregation platform in the United States", rather than "the leading financial integrations platform". Seems like Justice does know their real business. And they don't seem to care.
spurdoman77 6y ago
> There are organizations and companies that are trying to do this legitimately, through open standards and real incentives to both FIs and customers to share information in exchanges: That is never going to work. The reason the world works the way it works is because banks dont want to give easy access, so market opportunity for companies like Plaid exists.
- jsinai 6y ago
  It works in the UK where open banking is regulated by the FCA: https://www.openbanking.org.uk/customers/what-is-open-banking/ https://www.openbanking.org.uk/customers/what-is-open-bankin...
  - overscore 6y ago
    Open Banking is the result of the EU PSD2, so unfortunately is no longer guaranteed in the UK. UK firms have already lost passporting rights, and it's yet unclear whether the UK will align with EU regulation going forward.
    - martinald 6y ago
      I think it would be highly unlikely the UK would regress on open banking. It's been a cornerstone of a lot of govt policy for banking.
      - overscore 6y ago
        I guess the question is what you mean by "open banking". Initially, in the UK, that phrase referred to the FCA's implementation of the PSD2 requirement for banks to allow a secure mechanism of access to third parties. I think that this definition of open banking has already regressed post-Brexit, from the absence of passporting. UK firms and banks are no longer able to interoperate with EU firms and banks, and PSD2 no longer applies to them. Another definition may be domestic API access to bank accounts, which I agree will continue to be policy in the UK. It won't be PSD2 open banking, though.
Hydraulix989 6y ago
The fact that the Markdown URL format cloaks URLs is user-hostile.
- Veen 6y ago
  Markdown doesn’t cloak URLs; HTML does. We seem fine with that on every other webpage.

shrimp_emoji 6y ago

>P.S. Can we get real Markdown support already? The fact that the Markdown URL format isn't supported is extremely user-hostile. Hear hear! Markdown is definitely the new formatting standard, and it's amazing (I even take notes in .md files).

throwaway9980 6y ago

You're right, they aren't the first. That said, when I use accounting software, it's pretty obvious to me that I am going to be sharing my transaction history with the accounting software. When I connect my bank account to Venmo, it is absolutely not obvious to me that I'm sharing my entire transaction history with Plaid. Replicating the appearance of my bank's login screens is critical to the illusion. Even if I did understand that they are storing and using my credentials, I should be able to expect from a reputable business that they are not scraping irrelevant transaction data and then using it for purposes that don't explicitly support the app I am using. Selling my transaction history definitely isn't supporting the use case I'm authorizing.

milesskorpen 6y ago
Fortunately, Plaid doesn’t sell your transaction history, so this isn’t a concern.
- Cederfjard 6y ago
  Going by what was posted further up in the thread, that seems to be what TD Bank alleges in their suit?
  - milesskorpen 6y ago
    If you authenticate with <mortgage broker> via Plaid, then the broker pays plaid money and the broker gets your bank information. So I suppose in a sense that's "selling your data," but I don't think that's what people are concerned about: You explicitly sign into the mortgage broker to give them data! What Plaid has said on record they DON'T do is take that data they provided to the broker, bundle it up, and then sell it to marketing firms or hedge funds or other random third parties for which the user didn't explicitly ask their data to be shared. See: https://www.americanbanker.com/news/lawsuit-against-plaid-heightens-focus-on-data-privacy-issues https://www.americanbanker.com/news/lawsuit-against-plaid-he... “Plaid does not sell and has never sold consumers’ personal information or data. Consumer data is obtained and used with consumer consent. Plaid believes strongly that consumers should have permission-based access to and control over their financial data, and embodies these principles in its practices." That's pretty strong language.
- o-__-o 6y ago
  READ: https://plaid.com/legal/#consumers https://plaid.com/legal/#consumers
  - tazard 6y ago
    Any chance you could point me to something more specific? From your link I found this: > We do not sell or rent personal information that we collect.
    - sangnoir 6y ago
      Alternative title to this thread is "Plaid fails to sell customer data to Visa" (along with code, and the rest of the company). Consumers, as well as Plaid, have no idea where this data is going to end up ultimately, depending on who winds up getting control of Plaid. What are the odds of Private Equity acquiring Plaid and "leveraging synergies" with the pay-day loan company in their portfolio? I think the odds are greater than zero.

smichel17 6y ago

Re: formatting, I strongly suggest using markdown's [reference link syntax], which is much more readable when rendered as plain text. [reference link syntax]: https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/basics https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/basics

ROARosen 6y ago

From the press release: "Plaid is a financial services company that operates the leading financial data aggregation platform in the United States" I love the way they are literally defined as "the leading financial data aggregation platform in the United States", rather than "the leading financial integrations platform". Seems like Justice does know their real business. And they don't seem to care.

spurdoman77 6y ago

> There are organizations and companies that are trying to do this legitimately, through open standards and real incentives to both FIs and customers to share information in exchanges: That is never going to work. The reason the world works the way it works is because banks dont want to give easy access, so market opportunity for companies like Plaid exists.

jsinai 6y ago
It works in the UK where open banking is regulated by the FCA: https://www.openbanking.org.uk/customers/what-is-open-banking/ https://www.openbanking.org.uk/customers/what-is-open-bankin...
- overscore 6y ago
  Open Banking is the result of the EU PSD2, so unfortunately is no longer guaranteed in the UK. UK firms have already lost passporting rights, and it's yet unclear whether the UK will align with EU regulation going forward.
  - martinald 6y ago
    I think it would be highly unlikely the UK would regress on open banking. It's been a cornerstone of a lot of govt policy for banking.
    - overscore 6y ago
      I guess the question is what you mean by "open banking". Initially, in the UK, that phrase referred to the FCA's implementation of the PSD2 requirement for banks to allow a secure mechanism of access to third parties. I think that this definition of open banking has already regressed post-Brexit, from the absence of passporting. UK firms and banks are no longer able to interoperate with EU firms and banks, and PSD2 no longer applies to them. Another definition may be domestic API access to bank accounts, which I agree will continue to be policy in the UK. It won't be PSD2 open banking, though.

Hydraulix989 6y ago

The fact that the Markdown URL format cloaks URLs is user-hostile.

Veen 6y ago
Markdown doesn’t cloak URLs; HTML does. We seem fine with that on every other webpage.