6 ms·

> I don't understand why we don't implement the isolation procedures of countries that have gotten this under control I'd hazard a guess that it's because they

by cbg0 6y ago

> I don't understand why we don't implement the isolation procedures of countries that have gotten this under control I'd hazard a guess that it's because they don't want to completely kill off tourism, an industry which is hurting pretty bad because of covid (see TSA arrivals screened https://www.tsa.gov/coronavirus/passenger-throughput https://www.tsa.gov/coronavirus/passenger-throughput) No tourist would be interested in coming over to stay two weeks on their own dime locked in a hotel, only then to be able to do some actual traveling.

josephg 6y ago
Speaking as an Australian, I'm not allowed to travel to the US at all right now, unless I'm moving there permanently. Keeping everything open (and thus keeping covid rates high) isn't doing your international tourism sector any favours.
jedberg 6y ago
I don't think a lot of tourists are interested in coming right now anyway, given that our virus load is most likely worse than their home. That being said, this obviously needs to be paired with a relief bill that helps those businesses survive.
- cbg0 6y ago
  If you've recently had covid, it might be the perfect(cheapest) time to do it.
  - vecinu 6y ago
    I suppose I haven't read definitive literature on the topic to be convinced but can you not catch it again, especially a different strain? It still feels awfully risky to travel at the moment.
    - oblio 6y ago
      The anecdotal evidence I have says that you can be reinfected. I don't know if it was with different strains, but it's still troubling.
      - rootusrootus 6y ago
        The anecdotal evidence says that a small number of people have been reinfected, out of millions. Statistically, the average person is likely immune for at least a matter of months, probably a couple years or more.
        jedberg 6y ago
        It's still not clear if a previous infection stops you from being an asymptomatic carrier, and we don't want more asymptomatic carriers.
        timr 6y ago
        > It's still not clear if a previous infection stops you from being an asymptomatic carrier, and we don't want more asymptomatic carriers. It's as clear as it is for any other viral disease. For example, to my knowledge, nobody has ever done any kind of systematic study of whether or not infection with influenza protects you against asymptomatic reinfection with the same strain. This is a level of paranoia that is unique to this particular virus.
        jacobolus 6y ago
        > level of paranoia that is unique to this particular virus This particular virus is >5x deadlier than seasonal flu, is significantly more contagious, and nobody has any pre-existing immunity. Despite strong countermeasures, almost half a million people in the USA have died from the pandemic so far, and by the time we are through that number could potentially double. It is the worst infectious disease threat since the 1918 flu (thankfully not quite as deadly as that one, given modern medical care).
  - jedberg 6y ago
    Maybe, but it's still not clear if a previous infection stops you from being an asymptomatic carrier, and we don't want more asymptomatic carriers.
  - NationalPark 6y ago
    Haha, maybe if you want to go camping or something? Not too many tourist attractions are open these days...
  - smoe 6y ago
    Still doubt that that many people will travel long distance because of the hassle, the risk of getting stranded or having to deal with the local overwhelmed health system. Anecdotally I know a couple of people in Europe that travelled quite a bit during summer because it was an unique chance to see some historical places e.g. in Italy without the mass of tourists they are usually overrun by. But that was a tiny fraction of the usually very travel happy social circles of mine. But for the US I think the main attractions are the big cities and the national parks. The former are not really tempting to go to atm and the latter you usually want to go in groups and they seem so vast that I don’t think it is that big of an opportunity to go there when there are few tourists. The only people I know that traveled in between continents in the last months did so for family reasons and it was a huge pain for everyone with multiple flight cancellations, chaos with ever changing immigration requirements that not even the officials can keep up with, self-isolation, etc.
- bigiain 6y ago
  I have family and friends in the US. A lot of friends. I've visited on average 2 or 3 times a year over the last 20 years or so. (Almost all "tourist" travel, maybe 10 or so "business trips" for conferences or vendor meetings, all of which had ect4ended time as a tourist visit included). I have accepted the fact that I'm unlikely to see my family or friends there for probably at least 3 maybe 5 years. They will very unlikely be allowed to visit here (Australia), and if they are will probably need to spend 14 days in quarantine upon arrival. Right now I am not allowed to leave the country (without a special exemption, which sure as hell does not get granted "to visit my little sister and her family!") Even if I got that exemption, I'd need to join the huge queue of people attempting to return to Australia with severely limited inbound international travel capacity (we were only allowing 4,000 returning citizens per week, with the current concern overt he UK strain that's been cut to 2,000 per week). There are news reports of people who've been trying and failing to get back to Australia for 6 months or more, with flights being cancelled - and confirmed tickets of flights being cancelled (reportedly for people with higher priced tickets to fly instead...) I hope the vaccines work out. I fear that they may not - either being less effective that advertised, being less effective against mutated strains, or being thwarted by anti vaxxers.
- casefields 6y ago
  I spent New Years weekend in Palm Springs going on day trips to Joshua Tree National Park. It was PACKED. The park is absolutely beautiful and everyone should check it out sometime. It's an almost alien landscape. My hotel was full as well in Palm Springs. The only thin open late and popping was the Indian casino. They did check temps and make sure people had masks, but otherwise it felt like Vegas on a normal busy weekend.
  - corin_ 6y ago
    Considering how many immigrants and children of immigrants live in the US, even if the people you saw seemed very diverse they could maybe have been primarily US citizens not foreign tourists?
totalZero 6y ago
If you've stayed in a hotel during the pandemic, you know that the tourism industry is doing abysmally anyway.
us0r 6y ago
Tourists have been banned since March I believe. This was international arrivals at LAX August 11 (the worlds third busiest airport): https://imgur.com/a/fFsVSXf https://imgur.com/a/fFsVSXf
Fernicia 6y ago
But there is no tourism in the U.S. right now. ESTAs and Visas haven't been approved since April.
- markus92 6y ago
  That's not true, ESTAs are being approved as usual.
flukus 6y ago
> No tourist would be interested in coming over to stay two weeks on their own dime locked in a hotel, only then to be able to do some actual traveling. Depending on where they're coming from they'll have to do that on the way home, so they're not interested in coming anyway.
Tepix 6y ago
Our media tells us that in the US, wearing masks is a policitized topic, which is crazy. Noone I know is considering a US vacation since mid 2020.

by cbg0 6y ago

josephg 6y ago

Speaking as an Australian, I'm not allowed to travel to the US at all right now, unless I'm moving there permanently. Keeping everything open (and thus keeping covid rates high) isn't doing your international tourism sector any favours.

jedberg 6y ago

I don't think a lot of tourists are interested in coming right now anyway, given that our virus load is most likely worse than their home. That being said, this obviously needs to be paired with a relief bill that helps those businesses survive.

cbg0 6y ago
If you've recently had covid, it might be the perfect(cheapest) time to do it.
- vecinu 6y ago
  I suppose I haven't read definitive literature on the topic to be convinced but can you not catch it again, especially a different strain? It still feels awfully risky to travel at the moment.
  - oblio 6y ago
    The anecdotal evidence I have says that you can be reinfected. I don't know if it was with different strains, but it's still troubling.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      The anecdotal evidence says that a small number of people have been reinfected, out of millions. Statistically, the average person is likely immune for at least a matter of months, probably a couple years or more.
      - jedberg 6y ago
        It's still not clear if a previous infection stops you from being an asymptomatic carrier, and we don't want more asymptomatic carriers.
        timr 6y ago
        > It's still not clear if a previous infection stops you from being an asymptomatic carrier, and we don't want more asymptomatic carriers. It's as clear as it is for any other viral disease. For example, to my knowledge, nobody has ever done any kind of systematic study of whether or not infection with influenza protects you against asymptomatic reinfection with the same strain. This is a level of paranoia that is unique to this particular virus.
        jacobolus 6y ago
        > level of paranoia that is unique to this particular virus This particular virus is >5x deadlier than seasonal flu, is significantly more contagious, and nobody has any pre-existing immunity. Despite strong countermeasures, almost half a million people in the USA have died from the pandemic so far, and by the time we are through that number could potentially double. It is the worst infectious disease threat since the 1918 flu (thankfully not quite as deadly as that one, given modern medical care).
- jedberg 6y ago
  Maybe, but it's still not clear if a previous infection stops you from being an asymptomatic carrier, and we don't want more asymptomatic carriers.
- NationalPark 6y ago
  Haha, maybe if you want to go camping or something? Not too many tourist attractions are open these days...
- smoe 6y ago
  Still doubt that that many people will travel long distance because of the hassle, the risk of getting stranded or having to deal with the local overwhelmed health system. Anecdotally I know a couple of people in Europe that travelled quite a bit during summer because it was an unique chance to see some historical places e.g. in Italy without the mass of tourists they are usually overrun by. But that was a tiny fraction of the usually very travel happy social circles of mine. But for the US I think the main attractions are the big cities and the national parks. The former are not really tempting to go to atm and the latter you usually want to go in groups and they seem so vast that I don’t think it is that big of an opportunity to go there when there are few tourists. The only people I know that traveled in between continents in the last months did so for family reasons and it was a huge pain for everyone with multiple flight cancellations, chaos with ever changing immigration requirements that not even the officials can keep up with, self-isolation, etc.
bigiain 6y ago
I have family and friends in the US. A lot of friends. I've visited on average 2 or 3 times a year over the last 20 years or so. (Almost all "tourist" travel, maybe 10 or so "business trips" for conferences or vendor meetings, all of which had ect4ended time as a tourist visit included). I have accepted the fact that I'm unlikely to see my family or friends there for probably at least 3 maybe 5 years. They will very unlikely be allowed to visit here (Australia), and if they are will probably need to spend 14 days in quarantine upon arrival. Right now I am not allowed to leave the country (without a special exemption, which sure as hell does not get granted "to visit my little sister and her family!") Even if I got that exemption, I'd need to join the huge queue of people attempting to return to Australia with severely limited inbound international travel capacity (we were only allowing 4,000 returning citizens per week, with the current concern overt he UK strain that's been cut to 2,000 per week). There are news reports of people who've been trying and failing to get back to Australia for 6 months or more, with flights being cancelled - and confirmed tickets of flights being cancelled (reportedly for people with higher priced tickets to fly instead...) I hope the vaccines work out. I fear that they may not - either being less effective that advertised, being less effective against mutated strains, or being thwarted by anti vaxxers.
casefields 6y ago
I spent New Years weekend in Palm Springs going on day trips to Joshua Tree National Park. It was PACKED. The park is absolutely beautiful and everyone should check it out sometime. It's an almost alien landscape. My hotel was full as well in Palm Springs. The only thin open late and popping was the Indian casino. They did check temps and make sure people had masks, but otherwise it felt like Vegas on a normal busy weekend.
- corin_ 6y ago
  Considering how many immigrants and children of immigrants live in the US, even if the people you saw seemed very diverse they could maybe have been primarily US citizens not foreign tourists?

totalZero 6y ago

If you've stayed in a hotel during the pandemic, you know that the tourism industry is doing abysmally anyway.

us0r 6y ago

Tourists have been banned since March I believe. This was international arrivals at LAX August 11 (the worlds third busiest airport): https://imgur.com/a/fFsVSXf https://imgur.com/a/fFsVSXf

Fernicia 6y ago

But there is no tourism in the U.S. right now. ESTAs and Visas haven't been approved since April.

markus92 6y ago
That's not true, ESTAs are being approved as usual.

flukus 6y ago

> No tourist would be interested in coming over to stay two weeks on their own dime locked in a hotel, only then to be able to do some actual traveling. Depending on where they're coming from they'll have to do that on the way home, so they're not interested in coming anyway.

Tepix 6y ago

Our media tells us that in the US, wearing masks is a policitized topic, which is crazy. Noone I know is considering a US vacation since mid 2020.