8 ms·

I believe that there are two common and non-negotiable principles for any kind of freedom to apply: 1. Abuses and crimes should always be persecuted. I have re

I believe that there are two common and non-negotiable principles for any kind of freedom to apply: 1. Abuses and crimes should always be persecuted. I have read lots of posts on Parler, and ALL grounds for violent speech, radicalisation and terrorism apply to lots of them. I've read posts inviting people to hang and quarter democrats on the streets in front of their families, as well as posts inviting armed sedition against the institutions. Those who use this kind of language MUST be made accountable of their words, just like we'd make ISIS supporters accountable of their words. It's not that just because they're white and Christian dudes that look like us we can condone them a bit more. And if a platform refuses to limit this language, then the whole platform must be taken down. 2. Your freedom ends where my beings. You may be free of saying whatever you want, but if that ends up doxxing information about me that I didn't want to reveal, or it ends up spreading misinformation about me that ends up in death threats, then you are NOT free to do that. Parler has failed to guarantee both the non-negotiable freedoms when it comes to building a sustainable free speech framework, therefore it must be taken down. I really fail to see any contradiction in this. And keep in mind that the anarco-liberalist vision of free speech is something that has arisen only in the past couple of decades. The founding fathers of the liberal school thought (including Popper and Hayek), those who had REALLY seen how things in Europe ended up when unlimited freedom of speech is guaranteed also to fascist jerks, were well-aware that unconstrained freedom with no framework to contain fundamentalism is a threat to a tolerant society. "Being intolerant with the intolerant is a civic duty for a tolerant society that wants to preserve its values" (Popper)

unanswered 6y ago
> I've read posts inviting people to hang and quarter democrats on the streets in front of their families, as well as posts inviting armed sedition against the institutions. And I've read posts on HN saying we should hang and quarter Trump supporters; should HN be wiped from the face of the earth?
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  I missed those I guess.
  - unanswered 6y ago
    Or you turned a blind eye, subconciously perhaps, because they're acting on behalf of your tribe.
    - JKCalhoun 6y ago
      No, I think it would benefit us all if you can post screenshots, links.
      - unanswered 6y ago
        I posted some examples in sibling comments, and the response was that leftist calls for violence are actually secret code about carnival games. So I'm not particularly inclined to post more.
      - blacklight 6y ago
        Here you go. https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138288704_439884970698867_9082746861137435182_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=jK-SMGCt6mUAX_ODzO5&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=783533c61d4355922f963d7bf162a404&oe=60245993 https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138288704_4398... https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138535861_3660503153986009_8859139699633586206_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=aG0f5d1hICgAX_Dmy8N&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=c523295b3570ead7003fa2b06a78ce16&oe=60228716 https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138535861_3660... https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136066263_429114791778433_290246787597822178_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=7eeAEcKyWFIAX9yVy7o&_nc_oc=AQmDFGT_sTP3tUp0jI3tlsloQIvQsO8Bjrlx0amyYg1ogjVUKgvjHiGmRSyZzAHoIn8&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=cf7ff082fb35e9d595a31dc03334ffbd&oe=6025C81D https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136066263_4291... https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136413545_10226028491767039_2354560850865930389_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=SECN3vnsjksAX-OQUeL&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=5d04a99923cefa135ccfd67eb226dd3b&oe=6022DD91 https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136413545_1022... https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137061105_429922671697645_8994575902597868440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=BOy9rCnaRQIAX93L1Mo&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=0f94d9724c902aa677f2f7ad29a686f7&oe=60259AEA https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137061105_4299... https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137628944_10157849165621828_1288806495084749811_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Vg-3WA8xUmQAX_9zkQS&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=c2001f0dcf9aaed01006a83738af376f&oe=6025D0F2 https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137628944_1015... And when it comes to doxxing of private individuals who simply opposed Trump's attempts to overturn the election, just search for EnemiesOfThePeople (it was also a very active account on Parler).
- mcguire 6y ago
  Could you point them out? We tend to downvote and flag that sort of thing, although dang usually gets to them first.
  - unanswered 6y ago
    "I vote we whack as many Nazis as we can." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749435 Took me about 30 seconds to find. But in general I will not do unpaid moderation work for ideological crusaders like dang. For example, I'm sure there will be a reallllly good excuse why this comment is actually okay. And I'll probably get flagged/moderated for good measure. Oh, but for good measure... "The radical right is a scourge ... They need to be repeatedly smacked down until normalcy is achieved." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749634
    - mcguire 6y ago
      ""I vote we whack as many Nazis as we can."" The complete quote: "If we have to play an constant game of Whack-a-Nazi, I vote we whack as many Nazis as we can." That is a reference to the game Whack-A-Mole. Literally, that would mean hitting them with a soft foam hammer. "Oh, but for good measure... "The radical right is a scourge ... They need to be repeatedly smacked down until normalcy is achieved."" owlbynight's entire quote: "Our political representatives are corrupt and generally represent whomever gives them the most money, namely large corporations. "We, the people, are represented through our wallets now by the corporations that control our politicians because social media has unionized us. We're able to use online platforms to leverage companies into giving us what we want socially by threatening them when they step out of line. The companies that led to Parler shutting down were acting on public sentiment as a boon to their brands, thus ultimately reflecting the will of the people. "It's kind of like a single payer system for social justice. "It's weird end run back to representation but I'll take it for now. The radical right is a scourge that, unchecked, will lead to us having no rights at all. They need to be repeatedly smacked down until normalcy is achieved." I could be wrong, but I'm also not reading that as a call for violence, much less "hang and quarter". It's not a particularly attractive metaphor, though.
koolba 6y ago
> Your freedom ends where my beings. You may be free of saying whatever you want, but if that ends up doxxing information about me that I didn't want to reveal, or it ends up spreading misinformation about me that ends up in death threats, then you are NOT free to do that. You just described investigative journalism. Doxxing is not itself a violation of your rights, it’s just taboo when it’s done in the small. Only when it’s done with the intent of causing illegal harm, such as “X lives here, go kick his ass”, would it be a violation.
- blacklight 6y ago
  I was obviously not talking about rightful investigative journalism. I meant things like EnemiesOfThePeople (former link: https://parler.com/profile/EnemiesOfThePeople https://parler.com/profile/EnemiesOfThePeople), which leaked home addresses, email addresses and phone numbers of any politician who opposed Trump's effort to overturn the election. This has nothing to do with journalism and everything to do with fascist ways of intimidating private citizens.

unanswered 6y ago

> I've read posts inviting people to hang and quarter democrats on the streets in front of their families, as well as posts inviting armed sedition against the institutions. And I've read posts on HN saying we should hang and quarter Trump supporters; should HN be wiped from the face of the earth?

JKCalhoun 6y ago
I missed those I guess.
- unanswered 6y ago
  Or you turned a blind eye, subconciously perhaps, because they're acting on behalf of your tribe.
  - JKCalhoun 6y ago
    No, I think it would benefit us all if you can post screenshots, links.
    - unanswered 6y ago
      I posted some examples in sibling comments, and the response was that leftist calls for violence are actually secret code about carnival games. So I'm not particularly inclined to post more.
    - blacklight 6y ago
      Here you go. https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138288704_439884970698867_9082746861137435182_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=jK-SMGCt6mUAX_ODzO5&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=783533c61d4355922f963d7bf162a404&oe=60245993 https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138288704_4398... https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138535861_3660503153986009_8859139699633586206_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=aG0f5d1hICgAX_Dmy8N&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=c523295b3570ead7003fa2b06a78ce16&oe=60228716 https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138535861_3660... https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136066263_429114791778433_290246787597822178_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=7eeAEcKyWFIAX9yVy7o&_nc_oc=AQmDFGT_sTP3tUp0jI3tlsloQIvQsO8Bjrlx0amyYg1ogjVUKgvjHiGmRSyZzAHoIn8&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=cf7ff082fb35e9d595a31dc03334ffbd&oe=6025C81D https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136066263_4291... https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136413545_10226028491767039_2354560850865930389_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=SECN3vnsjksAX-OQUeL&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=5d04a99923cefa135ccfd67eb226dd3b&oe=6022DD91 https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136413545_1022... https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137061105_429922671697645_8994575902597868440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=BOy9rCnaRQIAX93L1Mo&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=0f94d9724c902aa677f2f7ad29a686f7&oe=60259AEA https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137061105_4299... https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137628944_10157849165621828_1288806495084749811_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Vg-3WA8xUmQAX_9zkQS&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=c2001f0dcf9aaed01006a83738af376f&oe=6025D0F2 https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137628944_1015... And when it comes to doxxing of private individuals who simply opposed Trump's attempts to overturn the election, just search for EnemiesOfThePeople (it was also a very active account on Parler).
mcguire 6y ago
Could you point them out? We tend to downvote and flag that sort of thing, although dang usually gets to them first.
- unanswered 6y ago
  "I vote we whack as many Nazis as we can." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749435 Took me about 30 seconds to find. But in general I will not do unpaid moderation work for ideological crusaders like dang. For example, I'm sure there will be a reallllly good excuse why this comment is actually okay. And I'll probably get flagged/moderated for good measure. Oh, but for good measure... "The radical right is a scourge ... They need to be repeatedly smacked down until normalcy is achieved." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25749634
  - mcguire 6y ago
    ""I vote we whack as many Nazis as we can."" The complete quote: "If we have to play an constant game of Whack-a-Nazi, I vote we whack as many Nazis as we can." That is a reference to the game Whack-A-Mole. Literally, that would mean hitting them with a soft foam hammer. "Oh, but for good measure... "The radical right is a scourge ... They need to be repeatedly smacked down until normalcy is achieved."" owlbynight's entire quote: "Our political representatives are corrupt and generally represent whomever gives them the most money, namely large corporations. "We, the people, are represented through our wallets now by the corporations that control our politicians because social media has unionized us. We're able to use online platforms to leverage companies into giving us what we want socially by threatening them when they step out of line. The companies that led to Parler shutting down were acting on public sentiment as a boon to their brands, thus ultimately reflecting the will of the people. "It's kind of like a single payer system for social justice. "It's weird end run back to representation but I'll take it for now. The radical right is a scourge that, unchecked, will lead to us having no rights at all. They need to be repeatedly smacked down until normalcy is achieved." I could be wrong, but I'm also not reading that as a call for violence, much less "hang and quarter". It's not a particularly attractive metaphor, though.

koolba 6y ago

> Your freedom ends where my beings. You may be free of saying whatever you want, but if that ends up doxxing information about me that I didn't want to reveal, or it ends up spreading misinformation about me that ends up in death threats, then you are NOT free to do that. You just described investigative journalism. Doxxing is not itself a violation of your rights, it’s just taboo when it’s done in the small. Only when it’s done with the intent of causing illegal harm, such as “X lives here, go kick his ass”, would it be a violation.

blacklight 6y ago
I was obviously not talking about rightful investigative journalism. I meant things like EnemiesOfThePeople (former link: https://parler.com/profile/EnemiesOfThePeople https://parler.com/profile/EnemiesOfThePeople), which leaked home addresses, email addresses and phone numbers of any politician who opposed Trump's effort to overturn the election. This has nothing to do with journalism and everything to do with fascist ways of intimidating private citizens.