5 ms·

Well, by a sufficiently lax definition, any gardening club is a political pressure group, because they are of course interested in their members not getting sho

by corty 6y ago

Well, by a sufficiently lax definition, any gardening club is a political pressure group, because they are of course interested in their members not getting shot, gardens not being outlawed and fair prices for seeds... The one thing that makes unions special imho is the focus on workplace issues in a specific industry or company. That is the area where a union also has legal protection. Anything else they do isn't necessarily protected, and I find it very odd that that "union" does everything _but_ the protected stuff.

TeaDrunk 6y ago
I don't doubt gardening clubs can and will pressure politicians concerning relevant issues such as local politics about community gardening. A small group of 12-15 people can have large swings on public space usages or lobby a low-paid public official that manages approving public or private gardening law in that county/town.
myWindoonn 6y ago
Well, like you say, that's your opinion. And history has a dim view of your opinion. I am not being facetious about protecting people from violence; unions came about in the USA partially because of the Coal Wars [0], an armed conflict between employers and employees. Gardening clubs are clearly not political pressure groups. I recommend that you do some reading on the history of unions in the USA; it is written in blood. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  The question is what the history of unions in the USA has to do with the Alphabet Workers Union. In particular I just don't get what you're trying to say about the Coal Wars; Google employees are not at risk of being gunned down by their management.
  - myWindoonn 6y ago
    The average tenure of a sysadmin at Google is 2yrs. They burn out. In the USA, the shortening of work weeks and work hours, the reduction of unfair responsibilities, and the overall improvement in health and safety for working conditions are all directly attributable to union action. Googlers suffered Apple's Techtopus salary-fixing collusion. In the USA, collective bargaining is an important component of breaking wage-fixing situations, and "labor union" is legal shorthand for such collective-bargaining groups. Google routinely appropriates code from its employees using a Microsoft Clause, which reassigns employee-produced code to Google unless the employee can rigorously prove that Google had nothing whatsoever to do with the production of the code. Thousands of commits are appropriated every year, and there is an internal lawyer-driven process for automating the appropriation. Labor unions of artists have successfully attacked such practices in the USA before. Google owns Youtube and Doubleclick, large advertising systems which both inspire great amounts of abuse and also themselves are abusive tools of user coercion. If Googlers wanted for Google employees to not damage their mental health by working in user moderation for hours on end, or wanted Google to be less of a part of our societal disinformation and spam problem by reforming advertising policies, then a union would be the natural place to start that argument. It sounds like you've never worked at Google before. Just because Google does not threaten its employees with regular violence, does not mean that Google is a stellar employer above reproach and without need for redress. Your overall attitude towards unions reminds me of a classic movie scene where disgruntled and confused folks wonder whether the Romans ever did anything for them. Here [0] is but one of many lists enumerating exactly what unions did for us. [0] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/5/15/1092027/-Thanks-a-Union-36-Ways-Unions-Have-Improved-Your-Life https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/5/15/1092027/-Thanks-a...
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      I'm not really sure how to respond. This is a long, passionate argument against things I didn't say and an attitude I don't have. I think unions are a great way for employees to organize against mistreatment; that's exactly why it frustrates me to see the Alphabet Workers Union appropriate the history of union activism to serve partisan goals which have nothing to do with the great things unions have achieved in the past.

by corty 6y ago

TeaDrunk 6y ago

I don't doubt gardening clubs can and will pressure politicians concerning relevant issues such as local politics about community gardening. A small group of 12-15 people can have large swings on public space usages or lobby a low-paid public official that manages approving public or private gardening law in that county/town.

myWindoonn 6y ago

Well, like you say, that's your opinion. And history has a dim view of your opinion. I am not being facetious about protecting people from violence; unions came about in the USA partially because of the Coal Wars [0], an armed conflict between employers and employees. Gardening clubs are clearly not political pressure groups. I recommend that you do some reading on the history of unions in the USA; it is written in blood. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
The question is what the history of unions in the USA has to do with the Alphabet Workers Union. In particular I just don't get what you're trying to say about the Coal Wars; Google employees are not at risk of being gunned down by their management.
- myWindoonn 6y ago
  The average tenure of a sysadmin at Google is 2yrs. They burn out. In the USA, the shortening of work weeks and work hours, the reduction of unfair responsibilities, and the overall improvement in health and safety for working conditions are all directly attributable to union action. Googlers suffered Apple's Techtopus salary-fixing collusion. In the USA, collective bargaining is an important component of breaking wage-fixing situations, and "labor union" is legal shorthand for such collective-bargaining groups. Google routinely appropriates code from its employees using a Microsoft Clause, which reassigns employee-produced code to Google unless the employee can rigorously prove that Google had nothing whatsoever to do with the production of the code. Thousands of commits are appropriated every year, and there is an internal lawyer-driven process for automating the appropriation. Labor unions of artists have successfully attacked such practices in the USA before. Google owns Youtube and Doubleclick, large advertising systems which both inspire great amounts of abuse and also themselves are abusive tools of user coercion. If Googlers wanted for Google employees to not damage their mental health by working in user moderation for hours on end, or wanted Google to be less of a part of our societal disinformation and spam problem by reforming advertising policies, then a union would be the natural place to start that argument. It sounds like you've never worked at Google before. Just because Google does not threaten its employees with regular violence, does not mean that Google is a stellar employer above reproach and without need for redress. Your overall attitude towards unions reminds me of a classic movie scene where disgruntled and confused folks wonder whether the Romans ever did anything for them. Here [0] is but one of many lists enumerating exactly what unions did for us. [0] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/5/15/1092027/-Thanks-a-Union-36-Ways-Unions-Have-Improved-Your-Life https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/5/15/1092027/-Thanks-a...
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I'm not really sure how to respond. This is a long, passionate argument against things I didn't say and an attitude I don't have. I think unions are a great way for employees to organize against mistreatment; that's exactly why it frustrates me to see the Alphabet Workers Union appropriate the history of union activism to serve partisan goals which have nothing to do with the great things unions have achieved in the past.