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This video is unwatchably annoying, is there an article with the same arguments/information?

by patentatt 6y ago

toomuchtodo 6y ago
https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme
- mycall 6y ago
  Is it true the $5T that ASCE estimated is being held by the 1% (or whatever you want to call them)? This would imply the funds exist but are locked up for thousands of different reasons.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    One might argue infrastructure funds are being held by the wealthiest in their investment assets that otherwise would've been taxed at a higher rate in other developed nations. This doesn't mean we should grow for growth's sake using that wealth, but based on on the nation's infrastructure report card [1], we are very much not investing in infrastructure upkeep. How do we pay for infrastructure? Taxes (or perhaps by printing fiat based on modern monetary theory). Do we need infrastructure to support a civilization? Of course. [1] https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/ https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/
lotsofpulp 6y ago
Simple version is today’s voters will always vote for low taxes and elect to have future generations pay for today’s services/labor. This works as long as you have economic growth (usually as a result of population growth). Doesn’t work so well when automation and cheaper labor from other places in the world are taking away the economic growth, and simultaneously people are having 0, 1, or at most 2 kids.
- imtringued 6y ago
  >Doesn’t work so well when automation and cheaper labor from other places in the world are taking away the economic growth, and simultaneously people are having 0, 1, or at most 2 kids. I think you are misunderstanding something. It works just fine. The problem is that there are these "waste" humans that nobody knows what to do with. There is also a glaring flaw in your comment. Automation increases economic growth. If a single worker is 10 times more productive he can ask for 10 times the salary. A lot of low income jobs pay badly precisely because there is not enough automation to turn them into productive high income jobs. Ok, back to the waste humans. The default answer to a surplus with no buyers is to just let the wealthy hand out a loan so that those with no possessions can buy the surplus and use it productively and earn money. For obvious reasons interest rates are down to 0% so this is not a viable strategy. However in principle it works the same with automation. Humans with zero net worth cannot work because robots are doing their job can instead borrow robots and use those robots productively. Debt is just a way to convince people to work today so that their productive output doesn't get lost. The borrowing strategy works out if there is enough demand for the robot labor, but what if there is no demand at all? You can just create demand out of thin air. Let the government print money and use it to buy consumer goods and services or let the government invest into domestic jobs that would otherwise not be done. Again, it's just a trick to make people work today so that their productive output doesn't get lost. The benefit from working is higher than letting the money sit around. Why? Because that's the policy. 2% inflation is a target. Your money gets increasingly less valuable so you cannot sit on it. You will have to do something with it. If you put your money in gold you are doing so with the expectation that society as a whole is doing productive work. If you put your money into stocks you are doing so with the expectation that this individual company is doing productive work. Yes, these assets are inflation proof, but only because someone is actually working. If everyone put their money into gold the assets would just become worthless eventually because society as a whole is not doing productive work. If CPI inflation is driving asset inflation then you simply cannot sit around and do nothing. Unfortunately the Fed is driving asset inflation directly and completely skipping over CPI inflation. At that point the system is built on circular logic without any connection to productive work. Capitalism without the capitalism.
  - 6y ago
wan23 6y ago
There's a book: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/44142112-strong-towns https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/44142112-strong-towns

This video is unwatchably annoying, is there an article with the same arguments/information?

toomuchtodo 6y ago

https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme

mycall 6y ago
Is it true the $5T that ASCE estimated is being held by the 1% (or whatever you want to call them)? This would imply the funds exist but are locked up for thousands of different reasons.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  One might argue infrastructure funds are being held by the wealthiest in their investment assets that otherwise would've been taxed at a higher rate in other developed nations. This doesn't mean we should grow for growth's sake using that wealth, but based on on the nation's infrastructure report card [1], we are very much not investing in infrastructure upkeep. How do we pay for infrastructure? Taxes (or perhaps by printing fiat based on modern monetary theory). Do we need infrastructure to support a civilization? Of course. [1] https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/ https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

lotsofpulp 6y ago

Simple version is today’s voters will always vote for low taxes and elect to have future generations pay for today’s services/labor. This works as long as you have economic growth (usually as a result of population growth). Doesn’t work so well when automation and cheaper labor from other places in the world are taking away the economic growth, and simultaneously people are having 0, 1, or at most 2 kids.

imtringued 6y ago
>Doesn’t work so well when automation and cheaper labor from other places in the world are taking away the economic growth, and simultaneously people are having 0, 1, or at most 2 kids. I think you are misunderstanding something. It works just fine. The problem is that there are these "waste" humans that nobody knows what to do with. There is also a glaring flaw in your comment. Automation increases economic growth. If a single worker is 10 times more productive he can ask for 10 times the salary. A lot of low income jobs pay badly precisely because there is not enough automation to turn them into productive high income jobs. Ok, back to the waste humans. The default answer to a surplus with no buyers is to just let the wealthy hand out a loan so that those with no possessions can buy the surplus and use it productively and earn money. For obvious reasons interest rates are down to 0% so this is not a viable strategy. However in principle it works the same with automation. Humans with zero net worth cannot work because robots are doing their job can instead borrow robots and use those robots productively. Debt is just a way to convince people to work today so that their productive output doesn't get lost. The borrowing strategy works out if there is enough demand for the robot labor, but what if there is no demand at all? You can just create demand out of thin air. Let the government print money and use it to buy consumer goods and services or let the government invest into domestic jobs that would otherwise not be done. Again, it's just a trick to make people work today so that their productive output doesn't get lost. The benefit from working is higher than letting the money sit around. Why? Because that's the policy. 2% inflation is a target. Your money gets increasingly less valuable so you cannot sit on it. You will have to do something with it. If you put your money in gold you are doing so with the expectation that society as a whole is doing productive work. If you put your money into stocks you are doing so with the expectation that this individual company is doing productive work. Yes, these assets are inflation proof, but only because someone is actually working. If everyone put their money into gold the assets would just become worthless eventually because society as a whole is not doing productive work. If CPI inflation is driving asset inflation then you simply cannot sit around and do nothing. Unfortunately the Fed is driving asset inflation directly and completely skipping over CPI inflation. At that point the system is built on circular logic without any connection to productive work. Capitalism without the capitalism.
- 6y ago

wan23 6y ago

There's a book: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/44142112-strong-towns https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/44142112-strong-towns