6 ms·

> the brand is so damaged By its own merits...

by kuu 6y ago

thiscatis 6y ago
I hate it when people hide behind the brand. The reputation of people working there still is damaged, screw the brand.
- greysteil 6y ago
  People are more than the company they work for. Be careful not to be reductionist by judging them too much on it.
  - messick 6y ago
    I’m 100% absolutely judging anyone still taking a paycheck from FB in this day and age. It speaks volumes about their character.
  - TomSwirly 6y ago
    So the people aren't responsible. But "Facebook", being a corporation and not a human, has no moral or ethical basis at all and exists entirely to make money. So by this calculus, all guilt, blame and responsibility is just waved away. They're only following orders, all the way to the top, where management are simply rationally trying to maximize revenue for stockholders, who also have no liability. Using the Greysteil Graywashing System™, any crime may be committed and no one is ever held responsible!
    - jader201 6y ago
      Your response is hyperbole. Why does it have to be all or nothing? Just because not everyone should be held accountable for a large company’s decisions, doesn’t mean that no one should be. Maybe someone sees it as an opportunity to learn from the talent around them, or enjoys the small piece that they’re working on. But not everyone in a company that is less than favorable with a given population should be judged equally.
  - sincerely 6y ago
    Ah, the 21st century version of "I was just following orders"
    - esoterica 6y ago
      The 21st century version of Godwin’s law is still Godwin’s law, it seems.
      - cutitout 6y ago
        Godwin's law just says that as the length of a discussion increases, the probability of a nazi comparison approaches 1. It says nothing about that even being a problem, much less losing the argument. Even better: as the length of a discussion increases, the probability of any comparison, any string of words, any combination of letters, "approaches 1". Something you can say about anything you might as well say about nothing. People heard the meme a lot, so they think it has weight without actually having thought about it. Encouraging people to reveal this about themselves, with pride no less, is the singular useful property GL has.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > The reputation of people working there still is damaged Most people need a job in order to continue to eat and to buy shoes for their children. They can't just quit. I don't judge anyone for working the job they can get.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    That is probably true for the Janitor. It's less true for the (non-entry level) engineer there. They not only have other choices, but also are implementing the policies.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > They not only have other choices This is the problem with tech interviewing - it's so incredibly fickle that even someone with a senior job at a prestigious place doing practical work may not be able to pass an abstract problem-solving whiteboard interview somewhere else.
      - eropple 6y ago
        That senior developer at a "prestigious place" can find a job that'll pay the bills, though, without working at A Name You've Heard Of. They have other choices; they just might not be choices that are as cool. (Darn?)
        johannes1234321 6y ago
        If they consider Facebook cool, they don't seem to have an ethics issue with Facebook in the first place ... (And yeah, some of the Tech they do is cool and there are only few places with such demand for technical solutions for that large scale of operation, but there's cool tech elsewhere as well)
        rglullis 6y ago
        Exactly. It's funny how you can "/s/Facebook/RedTube" and the principle still works.
ignoramous 6y ago
Facebook's is in an unenviable position: They tried to commoditize user-data to go after Google which back-fired. They tried long and hard to not be sole arbitrators for content moderation and were squarely blamed for it. They do take a stance to de-platform the most powerful person in the World but are now in the cross-hairs of every conservative as well. The left-wing obviously would like them regulated to oblivion... They have always been between a rock and a hard place post IPO. Kind of gives perspective to how long Google (with Android, YouTube, Groups, GMail, GSuite, GCP) has managed to go relatively untarnished (as a brand) but Facebook couldn't.
- eloisius 6y ago
  It’s kind of like being hated by everyone on all sides might mean you’re an asshole or something.
  - tmoravec 6y ago
    Facebook still has something like two billion of mostly happy users.
    - Mountain_Skies 6y ago
      Being locked-in isn't the same thing as being happy.
- toyg 6y ago
  > Kind of gives perspective to how long Google [...] has managed to go relatively untarnished I reckon that's because Google largely works on pull models: you ask for something and G gives it to you. Its services superficially appear like databases just sitting there, even if we know that's not the case. FB and Twitter, on the other hand, largely work on push models: you log on and the app will give you stuff to look at, as well as notifying you incessantly. It easier to perceive the app's own agency and priorities. In this sense, it explains why Google tends to get heat over Youtube: because it's closer to a push model, both with homepage and suggestions. Also, Google services are largely useful to get stuff done, in a way FB and Twitter are not. That gives G a big pass.

> the brand is so damaged By its own merits...

by kuu 6y ago

> the brand is so damaged By its own merits...

thiscatis 6y ago

I hate it when people hide behind the brand. The reputation of people working there still is damaged, screw the brand.

greysteil 6y ago
People are more than the company they work for. Be careful not to be reductionist by judging them too much on it.
- messick 6y ago
  I’m 100% absolutely judging anyone still taking a paycheck from FB in this day and age. It speaks volumes about their character.
- TomSwirly 6y ago
  So the people aren't responsible. But "Facebook", being a corporation and not a human, has no moral or ethical basis at all and exists entirely to make money. So by this calculus, all guilt, blame and responsibility is just waved away. They're only following orders, all the way to the top, where management are simply rationally trying to maximize revenue for stockholders, who also have no liability. Using the Greysteil Graywashing System™, any crime may be committed and no one is ever held responsible!
  - jader201 6y ago
    Your response is hyperbole. Why does it have to be all or nothing? Just because not everyone should be held accountable for a large company’s decisions, doesn’t mean that no one should be. Maybe someone sees it as an opportunity to learn from the talent around them, or enjoys the small piece that they’re working on. But not everyone in a company that is less than favorable with a given population should be judged equally.
- sincerely 6y ago
  Ah, the 21st century version of "I was just following orders"
  - esoterica 6y ago
    The 21st century version of Godwin’s law is still Godwin’s law, it seems.
    - cutitout 6y ago
      Godwin's law just says that as the length of a discussion increases, the probability of a nazi comparison approaches 1. It says nothing about that even being a problem, much less losing the argument. Even better: as the length of a discussion increases, the probability of any comparison, any string of words, any combination of letters, "approaches 1". Something you can say about anything you might as well say about nothing. People heard the meme a lot, so they think it has weight without actually having thought about it. Encouraging people to reveal this about themselves, with pride no less, is the singular useful property GL has.
chrisseaton 6y ago
> The reputation of people working there still is damaged Most people need a job in order to continue to eat and to buy shoes for their children. They can't just quit. I don't judge anyone for working the job they can get.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  That is probably true for the Janitor. It's less true for the (non-entry level) engineer there. They not only have other choices, but also are implementing the policies.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > They not only have other choices This is the problem with tech interviewing - it's so incredibly fickle that even someone with a senior job at a prestigious place doing practical work may not be able to pass an abstract problem-solving whiteboard interview somewhere else.
    - eropple 6y ago
      That senior developer at a "prestigious place" can find a job that'll pay the bills, though, without working at A Name You've Heard Of. They have other choices; they just might not be choices that are as cool. (Darn?)
      - johannes1234321 6y ago
        If they consider Facebook cool, they don't seem to have an ethics issue with Facebook in the first place ... (And yeah, some of the Tech they do is cool and there are only few places with such demand for technical solutions for that large scale of operation, but there's cool tech elsewhere as well)
        rglullis 6y ago
        Exactly. It's funny how you can "/s/Facebook/RedTube" and the principle still works.

ignoramous 6y ago

Facebook's is in an unenviable position: They tried to commoditize user-data to go after Google which back-fired. They tried long and hard to not be sole arbitrators for content moderation and were squarely blamed for it. They do take a stance to de-platform the most powerful person in the World but are now in the cross-hairs of every conservative as well. The left-wing obviously would like them regulated to oblivion... They have always been between a rock and a hard place post IPO. Kind of gives perspective to how long Google (with Android, YouTube, Groups, GMail, GSuite, GCP) has managed to go relatively untarnished (as a brand) but Facebook couldn't.

eloisius 6y ago
It’s kind of like being hated by everyone on all sides might mean you’re an asshole or something.
- tmoravec 6y ago
  Facebook still has something like two billion of mostly happy users.
  - Mountain_Skies 6y ago
    Being locked-in isn't the same thing as being happy.
toyg 6y ago
> Kind of gives perspective to how long Google [...] has managed to go relatively untarnished I reckon that's because Google largely works on pull models: you ask for something and G gives it to you. Its services superficially appear like databases just sitting there, even if we know that's not the case. FB and Twitter, on the other hand, largely work on push models: you log on and the app will give you stuff to look at, as well as notifying you incessantly. It easier to perceive the app's own agency and priorities. In this sense, it explains why Google tends to get heat over Youtube: because it's closer to a push model, both with homepage and suggestions. Also, Google services are largely useful to get stuff done, in a way FB and Twitter are not. That gives G a big pass.