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Out of curiosity, why would an American worker vote for a democrat? To get a Bronze Plan? To have no seat at the NAFTA table?

by jerry1979 6y ago

watwut 6y ago
I dont know, but workers actually do vote more for democrats then for republicans.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
Considering that before the bronze plan, Republicans offered no plan, I don’t see why not. Additionally, it was Republicans who handicapped the ACA and a public option by pretty much every one of them being ideologically against improvements since any huge increase in healthcare for the people at the bottom would mean huge tax increases.
- jerry1979 6y ago
  Republicans did have a plan: Obamacare is essentially the conservative-lite version of healthcare. Take a look at some of the differences between obamacare and a Heritage Foundation conservative dream plan: https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2013/12/the-aca-v-the-heritage-plan-a-comparison-in-chart-form https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2013/12/the-aca-v-the-h... While examining the important differences between the plans in the chart towards the middle of the page, it is important to remember that this is the difference democrats bring to the table in terms of actual lived experiences for working people. The table highlights wonky specifics and continuations of the current system that all look the same in the wash. For working Americans, it is very difficult to see any substantial difference between the two parties. However, there are very large culture differences between the two which conveniently keeps the working class divided.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    What I meant was the Republicans had control of the legislative and executive branches when Bush was president, but they were not able to pass any legislation that would help people get access to healthcare. In fact, the only big legislation I recall Republicans passing in my lifetime is lowering taxes for some people and the Patriot Act/Homeland Security nonsense.
    - jerry1979 6y ago
      That's fair. I mean, democrats were right in there with the state security stuff, with nafta, etc etc. But if people like you and me who low key pay attention to what both parties do can't think of anything substantial about the parties from our lived perspective, then how do you think other people who spend more time paying attention to their own lives feel about the parties? I do think the parties are good at delivering cultural signals. Neither of us can readily point to substantial policy differences, but we know deeply the cultural difference between truck nuts and vegan lattes, for example. We also know, without being told, the difference between welfare queens and cis white males. I think the parties offer this kind of "satisfaction" for their voters.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I agree, but I also take cue from state governments, where Democrats have been able to advance policies I support such as assisted suicide, higher minimum wages, sick leave and parental leave, legal marijuana, etc.
imtringued 6y ago
I'm not deep into American politics but from what I have seen from Trump's policies specifically they are basically massively increasing wealth inequality. It's like he knows what's the worst for the majority and good for the few. Democrats are at least not outright denying climate change. Investments in green technology could bootstrap an industry for unskilled workers that cannot be offshored to foreign countries. Even if you are not employed by these industries you would still see the general benefits of hitting 2% inflation targets which decreases inequality in the long run.
opsy2 6y ago
Higher minimum wage, workplace protections, sane health care options, child care assistance to name a few.

Out of curiosity, why would an American worker vote for a democrat? To get a Bronze Plan? To have no seat at the NAFTA table?

watwut 6y ago

I dont know, but workers actually do vote more for democrats then for republicans.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

Considering that before the bronze plan, Republicans offered no plan, I don’t see why not. Additionally, it was Republicans who handicapped the ACA and a public option by pretty much every one of them being ideologically against improvements since any huge increase in healthcare for the people at the bottom would mean huge tax increases.

jerry1979 6y ago
Republicans did have a plan: Obamacare is essentially the conservative-lite version of healthcare. Take a look at some of the differences between obamacare and a Heritage Foundation conservative dream plan: https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2013/12/the-aca-v-the-heritage-plan-a-comparison-in-chart-form https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2013/12/the-aca-v-the-h... While examining the important differences between the plans in the chart towards the middle of the page, it is important to remember that this is the difference democrats bring to the table in terms of actual lived experiences for working people. The table highlights wonky specifics and continuations of the current system that all look the same in the wash. For working Americans, it is very difficult to see any substantial difference between the two parties. However, there are very large culture differences between the two which conveniently keeps the working class divided.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  What I meant was the Republicans had control of the legislative and executive branches when Bush was president, but they were not able to pass any legislation that would help people get access to healthcare. In fact, the only big legislation I recall Republicans passing in my lifetime is lowering taxes for some people and the Patriot Act/Homeland Security nonsense.
  - jerry1979 6y ago
    That's fair. I mean, democrats were right in there with the state security stuff, with nafta, etc etc. But if people like you and me who low key pay attention to what both parties do can't think of anything substantial about the parties from our lived perspective, then how do you think other people who spend more time paying attention to their own lives feel about the parties? I do think the parties are good at delivering cultural signals. Neither of us can readily point to substantial policy differences, but we know deeply the cultural difference between truck nuts and vegan lattes, for example. We also know, without being told, the difference between welfare queens and cis white males. I think the parties offer this kind of "satisfaction" for their voters.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I agree, but I also take cue from state governments, where Democrats have been able to advance policies I support such as assisted suicide, higher minimum wages, sick leave and parental leave, legal marijuana, etc.

imtringued 6y ago

I'm not deep into American politics but from what I have seen from Trump's policies specifically they are basically massively increasing wealth inequality. It's like he knows what's the worst for the majority and good for the few. Democrats are at least not outright denying climate change. Investments in green technology could bootstrap an industry for unskilled workers that cannot be offshored to foreign countries. Even if you are not employed by these industries you would still see the general benefits of hitting 2% inflation targets which decreases inequality in the long run.

opsy2 6y ago

Higher minimum wage, workplace protections, sane health care options, child care assistance to name a few.