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I did a ctrl+F for the word "redox" here, since that's already modern experimental OS being written in Rust that's existed for some time, and I was surprised no
by saghm 6y ago
I did a ctrl+F for the word "redox" here, since that's already modern experimental OS being written in Rust that's existed for some time, and I was surprised not to see it mentioned at all; I figured there would be a section for modern OS neophytes like me comparing and constrasting the two. Anyone have any insight into how this project differs from Redox?
- shmerl 6y agoRedox might have different goals which leads to different design approach.
- raggi 6y agoRedox is a unix style operating system with a unix style design and ABI. This operating system shares none of those goals, it seems to focus on a particular challenge related to the abstraction between subsystems of the operating system, following a term they call "state spilling". The goal appears to be to design an architecture that supports in-place updates of most components due to them having tightly constrained state management and inter-component dependencies.
- pjmlp 6y agoI wouldn't call micro-kernels a " unix style operating system with a unix style design", quite the opposite. The only thing in common with UNIX from current Redox is the POSIX support.
- monocasa 6y agoA microkernel is a valid implementation for a unix like. The way that posix filesystem semantics are a kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style".
- harry8 6y agoYeah totally valid implementation of which there have been a great many attempts, far too many to list here. Precisely none of them in 3-5 decades has managed to deliver on the promise of microkernels prompting the question: "Were huge microkernel advantages actually greatly oversold, is posix a massively debilitating factor that prevents microkernel based systems from delivering on their raison d'etre or was every single one of those implementations a poor one? [1]" [1] including QNX
- pjmlp 6y agoYet, all major OSes were human lives are at risk are microkernels, go figure.
- harry8 6y agoWhat OSes? Citation please. Microkernel as cpu architecture abstraction layer. Such are only accidentally microkernels and not OSes at all as i understand them. They deliver on what of all those wonderful lists of microkernel benefits?
- pjmlp 6y agoStuff like INTEGRITY OS and QNX.
- monocasa 6y agoEh, stuff like older vxworks plays loose and fast with the term microkernel that wouldn't fly today. I don't even think they try to claim that it is one anymore until their most recent release where they actually added (optional) process isolation.
- pjmlp 6y agoI was thinking more of INTEGRITY OS and similar high integrity computing OSes.
- 6y ago
- pjmlp 6y agoExcept contrary to urban myths that isn't exclusive to UNIX and precedes it.
- monocasa 6y agoI never said that was exclusive to unix likes, only that it being a microkernel doesn't preclude it from being a unix like.
- pjmlp 6y ago"kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style" reads otherwise.
- monocasa 6y agoProviding _a posix filesystem_ as a kernel abstraction is what I said. Which is not very standard for microkernels, and makes it (redox) pretty unix like at the kernel level. The overall point being that both, microkernels can be unix likes, and redox particularly and at the kernel level leans in to being a unix like.
- pjmlp 6y agoIBM and Unisys mainframes also support POSIX filesystems, as does Windows, so now they are UNIXes?
- monocasa 6y agoz/OS is a full blown, certified UNIX. WSL1 makes NT a unix kernel if they wanted to get the certification. And redox goes beyond them in that the only user mode env it supports is posix with some extensions. But how is this line germane to the original point again? That somehow being a microkernel means that it can't be a unix like design OS?
- pjmlp 6y ago
- littlestymaar 6y agoRedox isn't a kernel: it's an operating system, and being POSIX compatible definitely makes it a “unix-style” operating system. Here, nobody claimed that the Redox kernel was unix-style, so you're fighting a strawman…
- piaste 6y ago> The goal appears to be to design an architecture that supports in-place updates of most components due to them having tightly constrained state management and inter-component dependencies. Strongly reminds me of Erlang-style hot reload. Have any OS projects based on that architecture ever got off the ground?
- samth 6y agoRedox is cited in their OSDI paper. Basically they have a bunch of new ideas for writing an OS that are implemented here; Redox is only similar because they're both in Rust.
- netsec_burn 6y agohttps://gitlab.redox-os.org/redox-os/redox/-/issues/1327 https://gitlab.redox-os.org/redox-os/redox/-/issues/1327
- rayrag 6y agoI've searched for redox in Google and this is the first time I see this layout (https://imgur.com/a/tVoKxBE https://imgur.com/a/tVoKxBE) in Google search pages. Anyone knows if they planning redesign?
- rattray 6y agoI think Google is constantly fiddling with search results design