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The thing is CD Project Red has released it's games in a really rough state before. All of the Witcher games were brutal on release. But every time they have

The thing is CD Project Red has released it's games in a really rough state before. All of the Witcher games were brutal on release. But every time they have not only released thousands of bug fixes/improvements for free, but also delivered large dlc/content updates. The difference with CP2077 I believe is that it was just the highest profile launch they have ever had by a wide margin. They are too big now. I don't regret pre-ordering at all, because they have always done right by me.

devonkim 6y ago
Yeah, the other situation is that PC players have oftentimes gotten buggy and unplayable ports from consoles for years, and now that a PC first development studio wound up screwing console players first it’s much more visible and the outcry worse. They never launched simultaneously on 9 platforms at a time. Heck, not a lot of titles do that at all that are well established veteran studios across many prior console generations. CDPR is no saint but compared to the rest of the industry they are relatively. I’m thoroughly enjoying it despite some small bugs here and there but given the massive size of the game and the really ambitious stuff they’ve done in animation it’s amazing what they got done in the time window they had between Witcher 3 and the original launch timeframe. I hope CDPR learns the right lessons though and focuses upon engineering management and how to rein in their marketing better.
- chii 6y ago
  a lot of CDPR staff left in the wake of TW3 because of crunch and other various factors (presumably, they weren't as well compensated for such a successful title as they presumed they would). CDPR cannot replace talent that's gone - and it shows in cyberpunk.
  - devonkim 6y ago
    This seems to be a longstanding trend in game dev houses across the industry worldwide, so the question is whether it was sufficient enough to cripple Cyberpunk development into its current state and whether the churn was worse than industry averages. It's not clear whether spending more money on developers would have been sufficient to make release better given Cyberpunk is the most expensive game in history and with only 30% of the budget spent on development.
    - chii 6y ago
      It's very clear that spending more money will not retrieve talent lost - just because you're hiring more people doesn't mean the old, internalised expert knowledge from old staff can be replaced. The graphical details are amazing and the art direction great in cyberpunk (disregarding the bugs and stuff on console). But it's very much a high production value game, but without the singular vision that would've made it an excellent immersive sim game (ala Deux Ex). And this missing singular vision is due to the lost staff that had this element for TW3.
mywittyname 6y ago
> I don't regret pre-ordering at all, because they have always done right by me. Same here. I bought it on PC via GOG, and while it was rough and unstable, I happily put about 100hrs of game play into it. Honestly, they should have released it as under-development on platforms like Steam that support such designations. It's pretty common for studios to release games in an alpha/beta state. At least that way, gamers would know that they are getting a potentially buggy release. For consoles, they straight up should not have released it until v1.07 at minimum. That's where they really screwed up. The game is in a much less playable state on the PS4, and console gamers in general are used to a much more polished gaming experience.
- KraftKacke 6y ago
  I don't get how they would draw _so _damn _much attention to a broken game. The marketing team should have talked with development every once in a while... Look at me! Look at me, I got these awesome new pants and I also shat in them.
zamalek 6y ago
> I don't regret pre-ordering at all, because they have always done right by me. I bought the game a few days ago and, apart from the NVIDIA RTX timed-exclusive, I haven't run into any issues with it. It's already a touch above the usual Witcher release. It's also worth noting that, at least from my perspective, there was a vocal crowd begging for the game on account of "something to do during the pandemic, assuming bugs warts and all". I'm not sure if this is why they released an objectively non-functional game to previous-gen consoles, but I would be inclined to believe the excuse.
okprod 6y ago
They also dragged out the release for a long time, all while continuing to build hype, like Anthem.
- munk-a 6y ago
  I think CDPR made a lot of serious marketing mistakes but hype building is largely organic - rando game reviewers end up being a large portion of the momentum behind hype trains.
  - FridgeSeal 6y ago
    The cyberpunk game subreddit was its own worst enemy: people were winding themselves up with hype that was never ever going to be even remotely filled, people speculating and dreaming about features and stuff that was patently never going to happen, etc.
    - ShamelessC 6y ago
      I could honestly never understand this. There's been massive hype over this game for like a full year before release. But we didn't even know what the gameplay was even like until like a month prior to release because they had shown basically nothing of it aside from a few videos of V looking into mirrors and what not. People should have learned this lesson after No Man's Sky. If people are merely conjecturing about possible gameplay and features that they don't even know will be in the game, they're going to be dissatisfied with the game.
andoriyu 6y ago
I don't think the size of CDPR is the reason here. They are public company now. Which means they aren't lying to some potential players, but instead they are lying to the investors. They made promises about work environment that weren't fulfilled. They blatantly lied about previous gen consoles performance. PC gamers are used to games not running well, but main appeal is that games usually run within the baseline. CP2077 is unplayable on PS4 and XB1. CP2077 isn't TW3 level of unfinished. I think CDPR has bitten off more than they can chew.
b0rsuk 6y ago
Your memory might be failing you: CYBERPUNK 2077: Lies, Excuses, & Sycophantic Fanboys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mKYZVtjgoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mKYZVtjgoY CYBERPUNK 2077 - Early Reviews & CDPR TOTALLY Misrepresented the GAME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko33FH1IItI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko33FH1IItI CYBERPUNK 2077: INFLUENCERS & JOURNALISTS Are Also to BLAME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJk5TJx6Hq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJk5TJx6Hq4
rootlocus 6y ago
I played Witcher3 on release day, and it was nothing compared to Cyberpunk2077.

devonkim 6y ago

Yeah, the other situation is that PC players have oftentimes gotten buggy and unplayable ports from consoles for years, and now that a PC first development studio wound up screwing console players first it’s much more visible and the outcry worse. They never launched simultaneously on 9 platforms at a time. Heck, not a lot of titles do that at all that are well established veteran studios across many prior console generations. CDPR is no saint but compared to the rest of the industry they are relatively. I’m thoroughly enjoying it despite some small bugs here and there but given the massive size of the game and the really ambitious stuff they’ve done in animation it’s amazing what they got done in the time window they had between Witcher 3 and the original launch timeframe. I hope CDPR learns the right lessons though and focuses upon engineering management and how to rein in their marketing better.

chii 6y ago
a lot of CDPR staff left in the wake of TW3 because of crunch and other various factors (presumably, they weren't as well compensated for such a successful title as they presumed they would). CDPR cannot replace talent that's gone - and it shows in cyberpunk.
- devonkim 6y ago
  This seems to be a longstanding trend in game dev houses across the industry worldwide, so the question is whether it was sufficient enough to cripple Cyberpunk development into its current state and whether the churn was worse than industry averages. It's not clear whether spending more money on developers would have been sufficient to make release better given Cyberpunk is the most expensive game in history and with only 30% of the budget spent on development.
  - chii 6y ago
    It's very clear that spending more money will not retrieve talent lost - just because you're hiring more people doesn't mean the old, internalised expert knowledge from old staff can be replaced. The graphical details are amazing and the art direction great in cyberpunk (disregarding the bugs and stuff on console). But it's very much a high production value game, but without the singular vision that would've made it an excellent immersive sim game (ala Deux Ex). And this missing singular vision is due to the lost staff that had this element for TW3.

mywittyname 6y ago

> I don't regret pre-ordering at all, because they have always done right by me. Same here. I bought it on PC via GOG, and while it was rough and unstable, I happily put about 100hrs of game play into it. Honestly, they should have released it as under-development on platforms like Steam that support such designations. It's pretty common for studios to release games in an alpha/beta state. At least that way, gamers would know that they are getting a potentially buggy release. For consoles, they straight up should not have released it until v1.07 at minimum. That's where they really screwed up. The game is in a much less playable state on the PS4, and console gamers in general are used to a much more polished gaming experience.

KraftKacke 6y ago
I don't get how they would draw _so _damn _much attention to a broken game. The marketing team should have talked with development every once in a while... Look at me! Look at me, I got these awesome new pants and I also shat in them.

zamalek 6y ago

> I don't regret pre-ordering at all, because they have always done right by me. I bought the game a few days ago and, apart from the NVIDIA RTX timed-exclusive, I haven't run into any issues with it. It's already a touch above the usual Witcher release. It's also worth noting that, at least from my perspective, there was a vocal crowd begging for the game on account of "something to do during the pandemic, assuming bugs warts and all". I'm not sure if this is why they released an objectively non-functional game to previous-gen consoles, but I would be inclined to believe the excuse.

okprod 6y ago

They also dragged out the release for a long time, all while continuing to build hype, like Anthem.

munk-a 6y ago
I think CDPR made a lot of serious marketing mistakes but hype building is largely organic - rando game reviewers end up being a large portion of the momentum behind hype trains.
- FridgeSeal 6y ago
  The cyberpunk game subreddit was its own worst enemy: people were winding themselves up with hype that was never ever going to be even remotely filled, people speculating and dreaming about features and stuff that was patently never going to happen, etc.
  - ShamelessC 6y ago
    I could honestly never understand this. There's been massive hype over this game for like a full year before release. But we didn't even know what the gameplay was even like until like a month prior to release because they had shown basically nothing of it aside from a few videos of V looking into mirrors and what not. People should have learned this lesson after No Man's Sky. If people are merely conjecturing about possible gameplay and features that they don't even know will be in the game, they're going to be dissatisfied with the game.

andoriyu 6y ago

I don't think the size of CDPR is the reason here. They are public company now. Which means they aren't lying to some potential players, but instead they are lying to the investors. They made promises about work environment that weren't fulfilled. They blatantly lied about previous gen consoles performance. PC gamers are used to games not running well, but main appeal is that games usually run within the baseline. CP2077 is unplayable on PS4 and XB1. CP2077 isn't TW3 level of unfinished. I think CDPR has bitten off more than they can chew.

b0rsuk 6y ago

Your memory might be failing you: CYBERPUNK 2077: Lies, Excuses, & Sycophantic Fanboys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mKYZVtjgoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mKYZVtjgoY CYBERPUNK 2077 - Early Reviews & CDPR TOTALLY Misrepresented the GAME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko33FH1IItI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko33FH1IItI CYBERPUNK 2077: INFLUENCERS & JOURNALISTS Are Also to BLAME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJk5TJx6Hq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJk5TJx6Hq4

rootlocus 6y ago

I played Witcher3 on release day, and it was nothing compared to Cyberpunk2077.