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Here is how I rate them now: 1. Worst Offender : Facebook Messenger --> spyware for tracking all your activities even in background 2. WhatsApp : Lost trust i
by suyash 6y ago
Here is how I rate them now:
1. Worst Offender : Facebook Messenger --> spyware for tracking all your activities even in background
2. WhatsApp : Lost trust in it since Facebook bought it, more so with the new terms and conditions. Data is not safe anymore.
3. Telegram : Trust it's privacy but it's proposed business model is also advertisement based so avoiding it.
4. Signal : Best option, there are some sacrifices to be made with lack of contacts and some features but slowly and surely we can turn the tide. Also it's open source funded by a Non-Profit so that gets it bonus points.
Reference: https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/04/app-privacy-labels-messaging-apps/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/04/app-privacy-labels-messaging-...
- Angostura 6y agoI rate them differently- I can use Facebook and supply minimal real personal information. WhatsApp by contrast demands full access to all my contacts whether they use WhatsApp or not
- Daniel_sk 6y agoYou don't need to give permissions to contacts, you can add a contact manually in WhatsApp.
- beagle3 6y agoThat has not been true in forever on either iOS or Android, if it ever was. It is possible to reply to numbers bot listed in your contacts; and apparently it is possible to initiate chats with numbers by using a web api which triggers a platform specific app action. But you’d be left with phone numbers as identifiers, and at most the user’s self description which is sometimes they name and sometimes just something like “xxx”
- querez 6y agoyou're missing Threema
- dunefox 6y agoThreema costs money which is a no go for almost everybody.
- greatpatton 6y agoAnd then people complain to be the product...
- dunefox 6y agoNot even that most of the time. People just don't really notice or care.
- jorvi 6y agoWhatsApp became massive before being bought by Facebook and you had to purchase it for $0.99 (or $2,99 it's been almost a decade so I can't remember the exact price). So no, as long as the network effect is there, costing money is not a no-go.
- dunefox 6y agoI can only tell you what I have heard from many people myself: 4€ for a chat app is not on.
- ring3711 6y agoExcept it wasn't really enforced. They kinda made you think you HAD to pay, but extends it to another year even if you didn't pay. So it was actually free.
- jorvi 6y agoYou literally had to purchase it in the app store on iOS (or pirate it, I guess).
- arnoooooo 6y agoWhat about Element / Matrix ? It's ahead of Signal in usability, and much more future-proof.
- Triv888 6y agoI wish that they would have chosen a different name when switching from Riot to Element because I am just starting to getting used to it. But it is still my #1 option.
- johnchristopher 6y ago> What about Element / Matrix ? It's ahead of Signal in usability, and much more future-proof. If only it could be present-ready. No, I am kidding :). The way I see it Matrix and Signal have different short term and long term goals, some overlapping. And both could do way better in term of usability.
- kevincox 6y ago> It's ahead of Signal in usability I like and use Element but it definitely isn't ahead in usability. Getting e2e set up for "average" people isn't trivial. Especially if they have multiple devices. That being said it is the the best long term option in my opinion and I am donating to the organization. Hopefully they can work on polishing the e2e UX.
- zepearl 6y ago
- brabel 6y agoDon't you consider Keybase to be an option as well? https://keybase.io https://keybase.io
- toomuchtodo 6y agoKeybase is effectively in maintenance mode after being acquihired by Zoom. If anything, Signal should adopt some of the crypto identity primitives Keybase was known for [1] for persona management that builds on (but still supports) phone DID identifiers. Would Zoom sell or donate Keybase infra to Signal Foundation? That'd be swank. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keybase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keybase
- spurgu 6y agoEven calling it "maintenance mode" is a bit too generous. It's effectively abandoned. Which is a shame, I really liked it and its various features.
- pastorhudson 6y agoI tried signal, matrix, Riot, Slack, Discord, Messenger, Hangouts, and Keybase is by far the best option. It is in an uncertain place though since Zoom bought them and moved its developers to work on Zoom. There has only been one small update to Keybase since zoom purchased them.
- anigbrowl 6y agoWhile it's not getting updated I don't have any worries about the reliability of its existing security. It's not perfect but it's pretty mature and feature-rich.
- tracedddd 6y agoKeybase showed a lot of promise, but ever since they were bought by Zoom I’ve been hesitant to depend on it. There’s a good chance it’ll be neglected or cannibalized in the future, not to mention the real or imagined CCP influence. Perhaps failure is a self fulfilling prophecy.
- laurent92 6y agoAll of them: Require your phone number to work, and ask for your full address book. Asking repeatedly for information that is not necessary is a red flag. It is suspicious, to say the least, that Signal is not censored from Apple’s Appstore.
- webmobdev 6y agoAnd that's why I recommend Jami - https://jami.net/ https://jami.net/ - you don't even need to share your phone number or email id to use it.
- ArnoVW 6y agoI believe the important distinction is between 'having access to phonebook for calls and chats' and 'datamining phonebook for the needs of Facebook'. Signal (the foundation) does not get to use my phonebook even if Signal (the app) does. Made the switch yesterday. Hope this will be a turning point for Facebook
- webmobdev 6y agoConsider Jami - https://jami.net/ https://jami.net/ too - you don't even need to share your phone number or email id to use it. And it has support for nearly all desktop and mobile platforms (with all the features we expect from a messaging client, and more - it is also a SIP client). It is fully open source, and all data is stored on your device. Signal may be run by a non-profit, but it a non-profit based in the United States. In the US, a non-profit can also be converted into a for-profit business.
- 88840-8855 6y agoi have tried Jami before and was very disappointed by the bad UX. People use Telegram, because it has a fantastic UX and UI. If you want people to even considering switching from WhatsApp, then the alternative must be 120% polished.
- davidf560 6y agoI've played with Jami several times because it sounds good on paper but it just flat out failed to work a lot of the time. Messages sent but never received, no indication of why or what was going on. For my uses anyway, IM needs to be above all reliable - when I send a message I need to know the recipient will get it (and in a timely manner, modulo their availability). Most of my network is on Telegram at my urging because it was the best option at the time, but I'm constantly looking for something better to replace it (as I'm aware of the downsides to Telegram). Currently I'm trialing Element with one of my contacts and I'd say it might be ready if I can get past the initial setup headaches, but Telegram just works so darn well and is so amazingly fast that it will be very hard to get buy-in for people to switch. Most people are overloaded with IM apps already, adding another one is tough unless it can completely replace and deprecate one they're already using. Jami definitely is not that IMO.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mssundaram 6y agoThanks for the recommendation, this is exactly what I have been looking for over the past week.
- CalChris 6y agoSignal is quite good and I use it for person to person. Hopefully with an influx of new users and with that, funding, it can reach feature parity with WhatsApp which is currently much better for groups. WhatsApp and Uber and Lyft etc, are very well crafted applications on iOS. They feel magical. Signal can get there as well, but it will take funding+effort.
- johnchristopher 6y agoI see the opinion that more users will help make Signal reach feature parity but I don't understand why that follows. Unless there is a massive increase in donations but that is largely covered by the 0% interest rate funding from WA founder.
- 1_player 6y agoWhile not a guarantee, the number of donations is proportional to the number of users. Since they can't extort their current users for more money, the only hope for Signal is to get more users.
- mikece 6y agoEven better is Wire: no phone number required, doesn't access your contacts, free personal accounts available, you can use it on a desktop machine with nothing more than a web browser, when using an installed app you can be logged into three Wire accounts at the same time, source code is open source and has been audited for security, you can set up your own locally hosted (or in your own cloud)... and more I'm probably forgetting.
- webmobdev 6y agoOnly client is opensource right? If I remember right, the server code isn't opensource.
- rekoros 6y agoIt isn't open source in the sense that it's in Haskell, meaning it's encrypted :-) Otherwise it's totally open source: https://github.com/wireapp/wire-server https://github.com/wireapp/wire-server
- 1_player 6y agoThe fact that it's a "secure collaboration platform" means it doesn't fill the same niche. I don't need a secure collaboration platform to talk with my family or friends. Also, no mention of free personal accounts here: https://wire.com/en/pricing/ https://wire.com/en/pricing/ And phone ID required is a plus. I don't need people to log in or search for contacts. Just install and boom, we're connected.
- zepearl 6y agoI'd just like to mention that Matrix (and its most prominent client "Element") sounds similar: > Even better is Wire: no phone number required, doesn't access your contacts, free personal accounts available, you can use it on a desktop machine with nothing more than a web browser Same > when using an installed app you can be logged into three Wire accounts at the same time Don't know if that's possible with one of the currently existing Matrix-clients. I guess that maybe in the future that would be possible, respectively, doesn't sound too difficult to implement. > is open source and has been audited for security, you can set up your own locally hosted (or in your own cloud) Same for Matrix. Not sure about the official audit, but at least France decided to use it as a base for its own governmental chat ( https://matrix.org/blog/2018/04/26/matrix-and-riot-confirmed-as-the-basis-for-frances-secure-instant-messenger-app https://matrix.org/blog/2018/04/26/matrix-and-riot-confirmed... ) so I guess/hope that they audited the original software.
- btashton 6y agoThe contacts bit is a disaster right now, there is a whole support page devoted to it and it still does not tell the whole story. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007319011-Manage-Contacts https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007319011-Ma... I had a contact show up with a super old name that I wanted to update but it was right in all my other apps. Turns out I still had the old name in one of the read only merged contacts from WhatsApp (contact showed up fine in WhatsApp). I had to remove my WhatsApp account clear the app data for signal and resync everything.
- sorenjan 6y agoHow is Signal going to fund their operations in the future if they grow to anything close to the other three in size? Donations? Even if they're a non-profit they still need to keep the servers running.
- _Understated_ 6y agoMaybe the same way that WhatsApp did: $1 per year per person.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- codethief 6y agoThe Signal Foundation received a zero-interest loan of $100,000,000 by WhatsApp founder Brian Acton which doesn't need to be paid back until the year 2068 or something.
- sorenjan 6y agoAnd according to Telegram's Pavel Durov, "A project of our size needs at least a few hundred million dollars per year to keep going." [0]. So future funding sources will be needed if Signal grows to be a big player. It's fine saying they're owned by a non-profit, but even non-profits have bills to pay. [0] https://t.me/durov/142 https://t.me/durov/142
- codethief 6y agoI don't think a project of that size needs that much money. Exhibit A: The Signal Foundation's tax reports[0] Exhibit B: The fact that WhatsApp had a very small team and rather low costs, at least prior to its acquisition by Facebook. (I can't find any numbers right now.) [0]: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/816178565 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/816...
- sorenjan 6y ago
- winrid 6y agoWait, how does FB Messenger track your browsing or purchase history? Is it tracking that history outside of the app??
- sandstrom 6y agoAccording to themselves (Facebook) they are tracking a ton of stuff. They say so in their own privacy policy. https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/04/app-privacy-labels-messaging-apps/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/04/app-privacy-labels-messaging-...
- winrid 6y agoYeah I went through the document. I'm asking on more of a mobile development perspective. The list makes it sound like when I open up Chrome and go to a site, Facebook knows right away.
- codethief 6y ago> 3. Telegram : Trust it's privacy How come you trust its privacy? Its privacy guarantees are by far worse than those of WhatsApp as Telegram messages aren't even end-to-end encrypted by default.
- suyash 6y agothanks for clearing, I bought into the PR
- aldanor 6y agoIIRC Telegram's proposed business model is aimed at businesses only (i.e. extended feature set, metrics, etc) without changes for normal users.