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Have you ever been to /r/politics? It's a groupthink circle jerk. The difference, of course, is that /r/conservative is explicitly defined as a conservative com

Have you ever been to /r/politics? It's a groupthink circle jerk. The difference, of course, is that /r/conservative is explicitly defined as a conservative community while /r/politics implies they are some sort of neutral community which they most certainly are not. At any rate, finding a diverse community of ideological people coming together to discuss politics with intellectual fervor is rather difficult these days. Part of the reason is the design of the software itself. HN does a better job of this than most because of very careful design choices and solid moderation. But if this could be accomplished for politics in general, I think it would be a good thing for society.

thebigman433 6y ago
I think the difference is that r/politics doesnt actually ban you for posting something conservative, its just the users deciding they dont like it. I dont use it either way due to their horrible link rules, but there is definitely a difference in my opinion.
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  You're silenced by moderators or you're silenced by users. I don't see much difference in the end.
  - lc9er 6y ago
    The difference is that the community observed your opinion and decided it provided no value. That could be a pro or con, based on many factors.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    There's a huge difference. The freedom to disagree is a fundamental part of free speech. The very fact that you get a big response from the community means you are definitely being heard. They just don't agree with you. When moderators do it, nobody even sees what you are saying.
  - jimbokun 6y ago
    Comments "silenced" by users can generally still be found by sorting by "controversial".
  - Lutger 6y ago
    Not being listened to is very different from being silenced.
    - malandrew 6y ago
      If the first few people to see something downvotes you into oblivion before the majority arriving later get a chance to see your content, that's silencing, not merely not being listened to. This is doubly true when those first few people are likely to be regulars that refresh pages often. This means that a few people that are ideologically on the same page can drive the ideological view of an entire forum without actually being a moderator.
  - pixl97 6y ago
    Then you are lost.
  - baby 6y ago
    I think you’re commenting without having tried to post on r/conservative
  - jandrese 6y ago
    Have you ever considered the notion that maybe your views are unpopular? Possibly even misinformed? Maybe if everyone disagrees with something you say, it's not the rest of the world's fault? Are you Principal Skinner going "Am I so out of touch? No, it is the children who are wrong."
    - Zuider 6y ago
      This can go both ways. A majority view may be held complacently without being challenged much or often. A minority view encounters constant resistance and reminders that it is not held by many, and may potentially be more robust because of that. Either way, a belief ought to be based on facts and sound reasoning rather than group pressure, and even the most strongly held position ought to be held provisionally and subject to revision in the light of human fallibility.
      - shuntress 6y ago
        >a belief ought to be based on facts and sound reasoning Sounds good but what happens when a loud group bases their beliefs on alternative facts (and select only alternative facts that specifically support their belief)?
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > a belief ought to be based on facts and sound reasoning What is the basis for this belief?
  - collyw 6y ago
    Tell that to the moderators of /r/anarchism, they are very ban happy and seem to relish the power.
- drak0n1c 6y ago
  Over the past 5 years r/politics has quietly banned users for thoughtful critical comments devoid of profanity (the proof has been shared elsewhere such as WatchRedditDie), and deleted inconvenient current event posts before they hit 100+ upvotes. The mods leave alone flippant casual unpersuasive conservative comments knowing they'll be downvoted and make conservatives look bad, and censor the thoughtful persuasive ones. It hasn't been just the downvoting, but as the crowd is thinned, increasingly more bots inflate votes, and those who remain are more deeply steeped in their bias perhaps it will be mainly downvotes from here on out.
  - nopeNopeNooope 6y ago
    You understand that r/politics has people from all over the world subscribed to it, and the viewpoints outside the US encompass a wild and untamed jungle of ideas that Americans cannot even fathom, let alone wrestle with on equal terms. This might feel unfair to you, but perhaps it's not anyones fault, it's just that you're not very insightful to people who have been exposed to a broader tapestry of ideas.
HaloZero 6y ago
/r/moderatepolitics is pretty reasonable though the idea of "moderate" is more about speech than views.
- neuronexmachina 6y ago
  Yep, it's one of the best subreddits around, commenters just need to keep in mind their rules of civil discourse.
- junon 6y ago
  Nobody has mentioned r/anime_titties yet. It's easily one of the best I was a part of when I was still on Reddit. Everyone had different opinions and viewpoints and things stayed very neutral. Even the mods preferred to comment on potentially shady links rather than delete them. And no, this isn't a troll; it's one of those reverse-name subreddits.
- spiralx 6y ago
  r/NeutralPolitics/ used to be good for discussion as well due to heavy moderation including requiring sources for claims. I've not read it in quite a while though.
burntsushi 6y ago
I think you're missing the point. /r/conservative censoring views or users is just fine. They can define the norms of their own community and enforce them. Just don't hypocritically declare that other people can't also do the same. That's the point here. The hypocrisy.
- kyrra 6y ago
  If you read messages from the moderators, its normally not about censoring, it's more about keeping up with moderating content. That sub is heavily brigaded (I saw some based that was at 17% upvote). And any sub that has toxic comments on it will be removed by the admins. Going flare only makes their job way easier.
  - yifanl 6y ago
    If the only thing it takes for censorship to not be censorship is that it'd make the lives of those in charge easier, then censorship doesn't exist.
  - jackson1442 6y ago
    Saying this implies that anyone can get a flair, so long as they are not brigading. This is not true, even according to the moderator comments. "Only mods can assign User Flair, and User Flair is only for conservatives"[0]. So no, going flair-only is explicitly to silence those of differing opinions. Don't get me wrong, they are well within their rights to do so, it is _their_ subreddit, after all. However, if they're going to dance around and act like a bastion of free speech, maybe it's time for some introspection. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/wiki/index/flair_rules#wiki_who_gets_flair.3F https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/wiki/index/flair_rules...
- refurb 6y ago
  This really makes it more of a propaganda weapon than a free speech platform. That's what the OP was referring to. If everyone is going to call out Parler for being a propaganda channel, then apply the same standards to Democratic Underground, r/politics, r/antifa, etc.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
trianglem 6y ago
The fact that you’re blind to the hypocrisy in this post makes you look like a brainwashed shill.
xupybd 6y ago
I think HN does better than most because they remain non political and heavily moderate on the basis of relevance. Also because Dang is so active and impartial.
- runarberg 6y ago
  HN is really well moderated IMO and I think you are right in giving credit for its success to this superb moderation. However I think you are wrong in assuming HN has remained non-political. There is a lot of politics going on in most threads. While blatant partisan shoutouts are usually not voted to the top and remain at low impact. Participants regularly engage in heavy political discourse. This includes responsibility to security breaches, workers rights (especially those of tech workers; e.g. should remote working be encourage; is flexible vacation policy good actually), taxation policy (especially those around start-ups), housing policy, transportation policy, justification of international sanctions and their effects, etc.
geitir 6y ago
Reddit in its entirety is communities of circle-jerk. Before reddit you had hobbiest forums that were close to the same thing

thebigman433 6y ago

I think the difference is that r/politics doesnt actually ban you for posting something conservative, its just the users deciding they dont like it. I dont use it either way due to their horrible link rules, but there is definitely a difference in my opinion.

vbezhenar 6y ago
You're silenced by moderators or you're silenced by users. I don't see much difference in the end.
- lc9er 6y ago
  The difference is that the community observed your opinion and decided it provided no value. That could be a pro or con, based on many factors.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  There's a huge difference. The freedom to disagree is a fundamental part of free speech. The very fact that you get a big response from the community means you are definitely being heard. They just don't agree with you. When moderators do it, nobody even sees what you are saying.
- jimbokun 6y ago
  Comments "silenced" by users can generally still be found by sorting by "controversial".
- Lutger 6y ago
  Not being listened to is very different from being silenced.
  - malandrew 6y ago
    If the first few people to see something downvotes you into oblivion before the majority arriving later get a chance to see your content, that's silencing, not merely not being listened to. This is doubly true when those first few people are likely to be regulars that refresh pages often. This means that a few people that are ideologically on the same page can drive the ideological view of an entire forum without actually being a moderator.
- pixl97 6y ago
  Then you are lost.
- baby 6y ago
  I think you’re commenting without having tried to post on r/conservative
- jandrese 6y ago
  Have you ever considered the notion that maybe your views are unpopular? Possibly even misinformed? Maybe if everyone disagrees with something you say, it's not the rest of the world's fault? Are you Principal Skinner going "Am I so out of touch? No, it is the children who are wrong."
  - Zuider 6y ago
    This can go both ways. A majority view may be held complacently without being challenged much or often. A minority view encounters constant resistance and reminders that it is not held by many, and may potentially be more robust because of that. Either way, a belief ought to be based on facts and sound reasoning rather than group pressure, and even the most strongly held position ought to be held provisionally and subject to revision in the light of human fallibility.
    - shuntress 6y ago
      >a belief ought to be based on facts and sound reasoning Sounds good but what happens when a loud group bases their beliefs on alternative facts (and select only alternative facts that specifically support their belief)?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > a belief ought to be based on facts and sound reasoning What is the basis for this belief?
- collyw 6y ago
  Tell that to the moderators of /r/anarchism, they are very ban happy and seem to relish the power.
drak0n1c 6y ago
Over the past 5 years r/politics has quietly banned users for thoughtful critical comments devoid of profanity (the proof has been shared elsewhere such as WatchRedditDie), and deleted inconvenient current event posts before they hit 100+ upvotes. The mods leave alone flippant casual unpersuasive conservative comments knowing they'll be downvoted and make conservatives look bad, and censor the thoughtful persuasive ones. It hasn't been just the downvoting, but as the crowd is thinned, increasingly more bots inflate votes, and those who remain are more deeply steeped in their bias perhaps it will be mainly downvotes from here on out.
- nopeNopeNooope 6y ago
  You understand that r/politics has people from all over the world subscribed to it, and the viewpoints outside the US encompass a wild and untamed jungle of ideas that Americans cannot even fathom, let alone wrestle with on equal terms. This might feel unfair to you, but perhaps it's not anyones fault, it's just that you're not very insightful to people who have been exposed to a broader tapestry of ideas.

HaloZero 6y ago

/r/moderatepolitics is pretty reasonable though the idea of "moderate" is more about speech than views.

neuronexmachina 6y ago
Yep, it's one of the best subreddits around, commenters just need to keep in mind their rules of civil discourse.
junon 6y ago
Nobody has mentioned r/anime_titties yet. It's easily one of the best I was a part of when I was still on Reddit. Everyone had different opinions and viewpoints and things stayed very neutral. Even the mods preferred to comment on potentially shady links rather than delete them. And no, this isn't a troll; it's one of those reverse-name subreddits.
spiralx 6y ago
r/NeutralPolitics/ used to be good for discussion as well due to heavy moderation including requiring sources for claims. I've not read it in quite a while though.

burntsushi 6y ago

I think you're missing the point. /r/conservative censoring views or users is just fine. They can define the norms of their own community and enforce them. Just don't hypocritically declare that other people can't also do the same. That's the point here. The hypocrisy.

kyrra 6y ago
If you read messages from the moderators, its normally not about censoring, it's more about keeping up with moderating content. That sub is heavily brigaded (I saw some based that was at 17% upvote). And any sub that has toxic comments on it will be removed by the admins. Going flare only makes their job way easier.
- yifanl 6y ago
  If the only thing it takes for censorship to not be censorship is that it'd make the lives of those in charge easier, then censorship doesn't exist.
- jackson1442 6y ago
  Saying this implies that anyone can get a flair, so long as they are not brigading. This is not true, even according to the moderator comments. "Only mods can assign User Flair, and User Flair is only for conservatives"[0]. So no, going flair-only is explicitly to silence those of differing opinions. Don't get me wrong, they are well within their rights to do so, it is _their_ subreddit, after all. However, if they're going to dance around and act like a bastion of free speech, maybe it's time for some introspection. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/wiki/index/flair_rules#wiki_who_gets_flair.3F https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/wiki/index/flair_rules...
refurb 6y ago
This really makes it more of a propaganda weapon than a free speech platform. That's what the OP was referring to. If everyone is going to call out Parler for being a propaganda channel, then apply the same standards to Democratic Underground, r/politics, r/antifa, etc.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

trianglem 6y ago

The fact that you’re blind to the hypocrisy in this post makes you look like a brainwashed shill.

xupybd 6y ago

I think HN does better than most because they remain non political and heavily moderate on the basis of relevance. Also because Dang is so active and impartial.

runarberg 6y ago
HN is really well moderated IMO and I think you are right in giving credit for its success to this superb moderation. However I think you are wrong in assuming HN has remained non-political. There is a lot of politics going on in most threads. While blatant partisan shoutouts are usually not voted to the top and remain at low impact. Participants regularly engage in heavy political discourse. This includes responsibility to security breaches, workers rights (especially those of tech workers; e.g. should remote working be encourage; is flexible vacation policy good actually), taxation policy (especially those around start-ups), housing policy, transportation policy, justification of international sanctions and their effects, etc.

geitir 6y ago

Reddit in its entirety is communities of circle-jerk. Before reddit you had hobbiest forums that were close to the same thing