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"Storming the capital" had as much legitimacy as the "raid on AREA 51." Those people dressed like Huck Finn Braveheart had as much chance of overthrowing the U

"Storming the capital" had as much legitimacy as the "raid on AREA 51." Those people dressed like Huck Finn Braveheart had as much chance of overthrowing the US government as memelords did kidnapping an alien and bringing intergalactic peace. This feels like 9/11 all over again. You got the worst legislation in US history as a result of 9/11. (the Patriotic Act) What's going to be the Patriotic Act for the internet now everyone is convinced we are being attacked? We know they want to get rid of Section 230. How bad is the law going to be that replaces it?

hackyhacky 6y ago
Really? They overwhelmed police and entered the building. The Vice President was moved to a "secure location." If they had arrived 5 minutes earlier, they'd have entered the House full of representatives, who could have been killed or taken hostage. We were a hair's width away from losing democracy and you can't take it seriously. We are, literally, being attacked by fascists, anarchists, and neo-Nazis. As I said, it's hard to see these things until it's too late. What happened on Wednesday was nearly the end. If you still don't see it, you're wearing blinders.
- vangelis 6y ago
  I doubt any of the StopTheSteal group has read Kropotkin or spouts on about mutual aid. Interesting characterization there...
- halfjoking 6y ago
  It was on purpose. Like I'm saying powerful people want to convince America we are being attacked. The best way to do that is to make it look like a real threat. They basically left the front door open, where BLM protesters got tear gas immediately. Do you disagree that the response to the two groups of protesters was a little uneven? The only difference in our opinions is that I think the response was on purpose. Huck Finn Braveheart is not a criminal mastermind. The number of protesters were miniscule compared to the BLM protesters. If the secret service and police actually wanted to stop them it would have been very easy.
  - heroprotagonist 6y ago
    Well, US institutions are being attacked. But I agree that the mob is just a mechanism in the system that was wielded poorly and got out of control. We don't need to crack down on the mob, but we do need to address the situation which led to it's rise. The electoral college is an outdated piece of government 'software' that has been repeatedly exploited in recent years. Through 2016, there were 58 presidential elections. In 5 of these, the popular vote didn't match the electoral vote. About 8.6% historically. But for the last couple of decades, excluding this last election which is apparently still being argued, that percentage has been 40% instead of the 6.8% historically. If Trump's re-election argument fails, that life number will likely drop to 33.3% in my recent subjective experience compared to 8.5% historically, or rise to 50% in recent experience compared to 10.2% historically. Either way, these numbers mean something's wrong. "That's just a statistical variation you see in any set of data when giving it enough numbers" is not likely with 58 and 59 datapoints. Particularly with the inclusion of other data. If you check the history logs, you'll see a technological explosion the last couple of decades that coincides with these electoral results that suggest exploitation of the system. Technology allowing fine grained microtargeting is only getting better, and it's being used to exploit the electoral system. This time with disinformation campaigns and fine grained behavioral tracking and analysis (eg, Cambridge Analytica). "Yes, we say we're a democracy but technically we're a republic so that means everything is fine and we don't need the numbers to always match up with the voting majority." I mean, I guess. Sure. Until we decide to push exploitation further, beyond the boundaries of the game we've set up. This time it looks like the actors in the system missed the margin of exploitability within the game and went searching for new exploits. Instead of acknowledging the loss, they spammed every court they could find with useless lawsuits. Like a malware bot checking every port to try to fingerprint services and check for vulnerable versions. And they turned the disinformation dial up to 11, inciting their base to keep their political machine operational since it's got a 4 year reboot cycle and it'd take time for their port scanning to finish. This tactic led to a mob rioting. And it's unfortunate, but the mob were ultimately a system mechanic that got out of control. They were the tools or were 'acted upon' in a systems thinking perspective, rather than actors in the system. The actors were wielding them as a tool, and like any tool, irresponsible handling resulted in injury.
davewritescode 6y ago
How many people died in the raid of AREA 51?
- postalrat 6y ago
  None because they never reached area 51. Just like they should have reached through the barriers at the capital.
klmadfejno 6y ago
Overthrowing the government? Certainly not. But I would not think it unreasonable to say that if the mob had found the actual senate, they would have killed some of them. Let's not construct artificial goal posts about what is utterly and extremely beyond the point of acceptable behavior. They killed a cop with a fire extinguisher. I have no reason to believe they wouldn't swing weapons at Democrat political leaders. Or even Republican political leaders.
- AugNoggin 6y ago
  Created an account to reply: "Exactly". When I read other comments expounding on how close we came to a coup, I can't help but roll my eyes as memories of being stuck in Egypt at the beginning of 2011 surface again. It's tough to not go on a rant about the order of magnitude of violence, uncertainty, fear, etc. between what happened with the violent nuts at the capital and a coup. Not to say that the safety and/or lives of some political leaders weren't at risk, but once you've huddled in a dark apartment while a true overthrow is in play, you'll have no problem distinguishing between the two.
- Fronzie 6y ago
  They chanted 'hang mike pence', so yeah, also republican leaders.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  Also, these people knew exactly how to find the offices of Senators Clybourn and Pelosi. Apparently Pelosi's office is unmarked, nondescript, and pretty well hidden down a maze of offices. And Clybourn has two offices, a "public" one, with his name tag on it that he rarely uses, and his official one, which is obscured in a manner similar to that of Pelosi's. Attackers knew which one to choose. Some are suggesting that this indicates support from someone with insider knowledge of the Capitol. Then there's the whole topic of Boebert and her obsession with carrying a gun around Congress in the days leading up to the event then tweeting their locations live during the incident. It looks like telegraphing in hindsight; like she knew what was going down.
  - 6y ago
lurker619 6y ago
Coups in the 21st century may not look like coups of the 20th century. This article may interest you - https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-first-phygital-coup https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-first-phygital-coup

hackyhacky 6y ago

Really? They overwhelmed police and entered the building. The Vice President was moved to a "secure location." If they had arrived 5 minutes earlier, they'd have entered the House full of representatives, who could have been killed or taken hostage. We were a hair's width away from losing democracy and you can't take it seriously. We are, literally, being attacked by fascists, anarchists, and neo-Nazis. As I said, it's hard to see these things until it's too late. What happened on Wednesday was nearly the end. If you still don't see it, you're wearing blinders.

vangelis 6y ago
I doubt any of the StopTheSteal group has read Kropotkin or spouts on about mutual aid. Interesting characterization there...
halfjoking 6y ago
It was on purpose. Like I'm saying powerful people want to convince America we are being attacked. The best way to do that is to make it look like a real threat. They basically left the front door open, where BLM protesters got tear gas immediately. Do you disagree that the response to the two groups of protesters was a little uneven? The only difference in our opinions is that I think the response was on purpose. Huck Finn Braveheart is not a criminal mastermind. The number of protesters were miniscule compared to the BLM protesters. If the secret service and police actually wanted to stop them it would have been very easy.
- heroprotagonist 6y ago
  Well, US institutions are being attacked. But I agree that the mob is just a mechanism in the system that was wielded poorly and got out of control. We don't need to crack down on the mob, but we do need to address the situation which led to it's rise. The electoral college is an outdated piece of government 'software' that has been repeatedly exploited in recent years. Through 2016, there were 58 presidential elections. In 5 of these, the popular vote didn't match the electoral vote. About 8.6% historically. But for the last couple of decades, excluding this last election which is apparently still being argued, that percentage has been 40% instead of the 6.8% historically. If Trump's re-election argument fails, that life number will likely drop to 33.3% in my recent subjective experience compared to 8.5% historically, or rise to 50% in recent experience compared to 10.2% historically. Either way, these numbers mean something's wrong. "That's just a statistical variation you see in any set of data when giving it enough numbers" is not likely with 58 and 59 datapoints. Particularly with the inclusion of other data. If you check the history logs, you'll see a technological explosion the last couple of decades that coincides with these electoral results that suggest exploitation of the system. Technology allowing fine grained microtargeting is only getting better, and it's being used to exploit the electoral system. This time with disinformation campaigns and fine grained behavioral tracking and analysis (eg, Cambridge Analytica). "Yes, we say we're a democracy but technically we're a republic so that means everything is fine and we don't need the numbers to always match up with the voting majority." I mean, I guess. Sure. Until we decide to push exploitation further, beyond the boundaries of the game we've set up. This time it looks like the actors in the system missed the margin of exploitability within the game and went searching for new exploits. Instead of acknowledging the loss, they spammed every court they could find with useless lawsuits. Like a malware bot checking every port to try to fingerprint services and check for vulnerable versions. And they turned the disinformation dial up to 11, inciting their base to keep their political machine operational since it's got a 4 year reboot cycle and it'd take time for their port scanning to finish. This tactic led to a mob rioting. And it's unfortunate, but the mob were ultimately a system mechanic that got out of control. They were the tools or were 'acted upon' in a systems thinking perspective, rather than actors in the system. The actors were wielding them as a tool, and like any tool, irresponsible handling resulted in injury.

davewritescode 6y ago

How many people died in the raid of AREA 51?

postalrat 6y ago
None because they never reached area 51. Just like they should have reached through the barriers at the capital.

klmadfejno 6y ago

Overthrowing the government? Certainly not. But I would not think it unreasonable to say that if the mob had found the actual senate, they would have killed some of them. Let's not construct artificial goal posts about what is utterly and extremely beyond the point of acceptable behavior. They killed a cop with a fire extinguisher. I have no reason to believe they wouldn't swing weapons at Democrat political leaders. Or even Republican political leaders.

AugNoggin 6y ago
Created an account to reply: "Exactly". When I read other comments expounding on how close we came to a coup, I can't help but roll my eyes as memories of being stuck in Egypt at the beginning of 2011 surface again. It's tough to not go on a rant about the order of magnitude of violence, uncertainty, fear, etc. between what happened with the violent nuts at the capital and a coup. Not to say that the safety and/or lives of some political leaders weren't at risk, but once you've huddled in a dark apartment while a true overthrow is in play, you'll have no problem distinguishing between the two.
Fronzie 6y ago
They chanted 'hang mike pence', so yeah, also republican leaders.
mywittyname 6y ago
Also, these people knew exactly how to find the offices of Senators Clybourn and Pelosi. Apparently Pelosi's office is unmarked, nondescript, and pretty well hidden down a maze of offices. And Clybourn has two offices, a "public" one, with his name tag on it that he rarely uses, and his official one, which is obscured in a manner similar to that of Pelosi's. Attackers knew which one to choose. Some are suggesting that this indicates support from someone with insider knowledge of the Capitol. Then there's the whole topic of Boebert and her obsession with carrying a gun around Congress in the days leading up to the event then tweeting their locations live during the incident. It looks like telegraphing in hindsight; like she knew what was going down.
- 6y ago

lurker619 6y ago

Coups in the 21st century may not look like coups of the 20th century. This article may interest you - https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-first-phygital-coup https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-first-phygital-coup