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Yeah but this one wasn’t about telling your partner they look good in that shirt. We are talking about rhetoric that lead to an insurrection on the Capitol and

Yeah but this one wasn’t about telling your partner they look good in that shirt. We are talking about rhetoric that lead to an insurrection on the Capitol and the death of 5 Americans. I don’t quite understand why every one of these events devolve into high reductive free speech or slippery slope arguments. What is going to take for the people start accepting some personal responsibility? From where I sit I see a group of people not accepting responsibility for some truly heinous acts perpetrated by their own “tribe” (for lack of a better word), so others are coming in and cleaning up their mess. If that’s unacceptable or don’t like how it’s being done, then perhaps the most disarming thing would be to accept some personal responsibility, grab a mop and start cleaning your room.. not “it was the Democrats fault” has Rudy put it

nradov 6y ago
I don't support the insurrectionists but they are far from being a tribe. If you listen to interviews with them there was a huge diversity of motivations. The crowd included anarchists, neo-nazis, rabid Trump supporters, constitutionalists, revolutionaries, people who honestly (but wrongly) believe the election was stolen, etc. The whole scene was chaos with no real organized tribal leadership.
atypicaluser 6y ago
> Rhetoric that led to an insurrection... A situation that some term an 'insurrection' and others term a 'riot'. Trouble is, who's right? Who has the authority to make an objective claim on this? For half-a-year before last week, those on the other side (the so-called insurrectionists and insurrectionist-adjacent) claimed that situations like the Minneapolis protests, the CHAZ, the Portland protests, the Chicago protests, the Atlanta protests, etc. (all together which ended in at least a couple dozen deaths and hundreds of millions in property damage) were riots and insurrections, whereas most media establishments (your NYTs and your MSNBCs) insisted these were 'mostly peaceful' protests. Both sides agreed something was happening--they disagreed on what to call it. In defense of the many who view the situation as a riot as opposed to an insurrection, it's hard to make the case for insurrection when (1) police waved rioters into the Capitol in places, (2) Capitol cops felt so unthreatened by the situation that they posed with rioters for selfies and (3) the Senators were similarly besieged (sans deaths) during the Kavanaugh hearings eighteen months ago... with no one (amongst Democrats) calling this an insurrection. But, as Democrats are the victors, they will write the histories. So it goes.
- vladTheInhaler 6y ago
  > Capitol cops felt so unthreatened by the situation that they posed with rioters for selfies Some cops, *white* cops, felt unthreatened. Black cops describe being called the N word fifteen times, and breaking down crying from the stress after the building had been secured [1]. One officer KILLED HIMSELF after surviving this riot [2]. [1] https://nypost.com/2021/01/10/black-capitol-police-officers-say-terrorists-used-n-word/ https://nypost.com/2021/01/10/black-capitol-police-officers-... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/liebengood-capitol-police-death/2021/01/10/3a495b84-5357-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/liebengoo...
- macintux 6y ago
  > the Senators were similarly besieged (sans deaths) during the Kavanaugh hearings eighteen months ago Men in camouflage with weapons and zip ties marched into the Capitol threatening to hang Senators? How did I miss this?
u801e 6y ago
> I don’t quite understand why every one of these events devolve into high reductive free speech or slippery slope arguments. Not to mention whataboutism (e.g. what about the protests in response to the death of George Floyd or the BLM movement).

nradov 6y ago

I don't support the insurrectionists but they are far from being a tribe. If you listen to interviews with them there was a huge diversity of motivations. The crowd included anarchists, neo-nazis, rabid Trump supporters, constitutionalists, revolutionaries, people who honestly (but wrongly) believe the election was stolen, etc. The whole scene was chaos with no real organized tribal leadership.

atypicaluser 6y ago

> Rhetoric that led to an insurrection... A situation that some term an 'insurrection' and others term a 'riot'. Trouble is, who's right? Who has the authority to make an objective claim on this? For half-a-year before last week, those on the other side (the so-called insurrectionists and insurrectionist-adjacent) claimed that situations like the Minneapolis protests, the CHAZ, the Portland protests, the Chicago protests, the Atlanta protests, etc. (all together which ended in at least a couple dozen deaths and hundreds of millions in property damage) were riots and insurrections, whereas most media establishments (your NYTs and your MSNBCs) insisted these were 'mostly peaceful' protests. Both sides agreed something was happening--they disagreed on what to call it. In defense of the many who view the situation as a riot as opposed to an insurrection, it's hard to make the case for insurrection when (1) police waved rioters into the Capitol in places, (2) Capitol cops felt so unthreatened by the situation that they posed with rioters for selfies and (3) the Senators were similarly besieged (sans deaths) during the Kavanaugh hearings eighteen months ago... with no one (amongst Democrats) calling this an insurrection. But, as Democrats are the victors, they will write the histories. So it goes.

vladTheInhaler 6y ago
> Capitol cops felt so unthreatened by the situation that they posed with rioters for selfies Some cops, *white* cops, felt unthreatened. Black cops describe being called the N word fifteen times, and breaking down crying from the stress after the building had been secured [1]. One officer KILLED HIMSELF after surviving this riot [2]. [1] https://nypost.com/2021/01/10/black-capitol-police-officers-say-terrorists-used-n-word/ https://nypost.com/2021/01/10/black-capitol-police-officers-... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/liebengood-capitol-police-death/2021/01/10/3a495b84-5357-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/liebengoo...
macintux 6y ago
> the Senators were similarly besieged (sans deaths) during the Kavanaugh hearings eighteen months ago Men in camouflage with weapons and zip ties marched into the Capitol threatening to hang Senators? How did I miss this?

u801e 6y ago

> I don’t quite understand why every one of these events devolve into high reductive free speech or slippery slope arguments. Not to mention whataboutism (e.g. what about the protests in response to the death of George Floyd or the BLM movement).