7 ms·

High Voltage “Lifter”

43 points by mindcrime 6y ago

phreeza 6y ago
I wonder if the same effect could be used in reverse to build a solid state wind "turbine"/generator without any moving parts.
- opwieurposiu 6y ago
  Yes, such a thing exists! https://medium.com/greener-together/the-solid-state-wind-energy-converter-93204f14a1fa https://medium.com/greener-together/the-solid-state-wind-ene...
- gus_massa 6y ago
  I think it is possible to use this as a fan, but this design is very inefficient. Somewhat related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster
- dharmab 6y ago
  Yes, you can even build a glider! https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121 https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-p...
opwieurposiu 6y ago
These are pretty easy to make, using an old CRT monitor as the HV power supply. I made some in the early 2000s. Back then there was a lot of chatter about how "asymmetric capacitors" could provide reactionless propulsion. Of course it turned out just to be an inefficient and dangerous way to make a desk fan.
- phkahler 6y ago
  Townsend Brown. I knew a guy who spent years trying to replicate that stuff. Wonder what became of him?
- dharmab 6y ago
  A team at MIT made an ionic wind glider a couple of years back that flew across a room. https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121 https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-p...
- beerandt 6y ago
  I always used neon-light transformers. Dirt cheap or even free, since bars often had promotional ones they didn't pay for, or ones with broken glass that they were happy to be rid of. I also clearly remember thinking that these were a lot safer to use than old CRTs, but I have no idea why and don't recall the reasoning for it.
  - Doxin 6y ago
    IIRC CRTs store charge in a rather large capacitor. Neon transformers don't. So touching unplugged CRT internals could shock you across the room, whereas neon transformers don't have that risk.
    - beerandt 6y ago
      I believe thats correct. Because now that you say that, I remember that part of substituting it for a CRT adding a bunch of homeade brine capacitors, which were basically just glass jars wrapped in foil and some various scrap metal conductors. Less risk of injury in case of an accidental discharge, and easier to purposefully discharge when bringing everything back to ground. At least that's I convinced myself of back then. On the other hand, in hindsight, we were pretty dumb, and still built a lot of really irresponsibly dangerous stuff.
jacquesm 6y ago
Related (not electrostatic, but also propulsion without macroscopic moving parts): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive
benibela 6y ago
I tried to build one in high school, but it did not work :( I think the school had a hand powered high voltage generator with some kind of leather band I took it to university and gave it to a professor who might have a more stable HV power supply. I got it back after a year, and they said it was too dangerous to try it out, or something
- 0_____0 6y ago
  probably would have worked on a real hv supply. maybe time to reprise the experiment? :)
amelius 6y ago
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8CLhEU4jA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8CLhEU4jA By the way, if you like this then you might also like this video about acoustic levitation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjRnSYw-4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjRnSYw-4k
wolfram74 6y ago
This same principle has been incorporated in full blown air planes. Admittedly very short operational range at the moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IorDYGI1uqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IorDYGI1uqc
- dharmab 6y ago
  From reading their research, it seems the range was artificially limited to the size of the gym because the team didn't have access to a larger test area.
mrfusion 6y ago
I really think there’s a lot of potential for high voltage technologies. No one really explores it because it’s absolutely terrifying.
hatsunearu 6y ago
My first exposure to this was Steins;Gate. Bit obscure unless you take a close at the S;G lore though. It's merely a passing reference in the anime AFAIK
peter_d_sherman 6y ago
This effect has been known to the Internet for a long time... For example, here is a web page by Jean-Louis Naudin (Google his name + 'electrostatic' and/or 'lifter', etc.) which dates around February 14th, 2002: http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm ...and contains references a patent by Townsend Brown (Google his name also) "US Patent N°2949550" which dates around Aug 16, 1960 -- which also describes the effect... And of course, there may be other earlier patents, foreign and/or domestic, if one does the appropriate research... But it's nice that this effect gets some more publicity here on HN...

43 points by mindcrime 6y ago

I wonder if the same effect could be used in reverse to build a solid state wind "turbine"/generator without any moving parts.

opwieurposiu 6y ago
Yes, such a thing exists! https://medium.com/greener-together/the-solid-state-wind-energy-converter-93204f14a1fa https://medium.com/greener-together/the-solid-state-wind-ene...
gus_massa 6y ago
I think it is possible to use this as a fan, but this design is very inefficient. Somewhat related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster
dharmab 6y ago
Yes, you can even build a glider! https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121 https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-p...

opwieurposiu 6y ago

These are pretty easy to make, using an old CRT monitor as the HV power supply. I made some in the early 2000s. Back then there was a lot of chatter about how "asymmetric capacitors" could provide reactionless propulsion. Of course it turned out just to be an inefficient and dangerous way to make a desk fan.

phkahler 6y ago
Townsend Brown. I knew a guy who spent years trying to replicate that stuff. Wonder what became of him?
dharmab 6y ago
A team at MIT made an ionic wind glider a couple of years back that flew across a room. https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121 https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-p...
beerandt 6y ago
I always used neon-light transformers. Dirt cheap or even free, since bars often had promotional ones they didn't pay for, or ones with broken glass that they were happy to be rid of. I also clearly remember thinking that these were a lot safer to use than old CRTs, but I have no idea why and don't recall the reasoning for it.
- Doxin 6y ago
  IIRC CRTs store charge in a rather large capacitor. Neon transformers don't. So touching unplugged CRT internals could shock you across the room, whereas neon transformers don't have that risk.
  - beerandt 6y ago
    I believe thats correct. Because now that you say that, I remember that part of substituting it for a CRT adding a bunch of homeade brine capacitors, which were basically just glass jars wrapped in foil and some various scrap metal conductors. Less risk of injury in case of an accidental discharge, and easier to purposefully discharge when bringing everything back to ground. At least that's I convinced myself of back then. On the other hand, in hindsight, we were pretty dumb, and still built a lot of really irresponsibly dangerous stuff.

jacquesm 6y ago

Related (not electrostatic, but also propulsion without macroscopic moving parts): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive

benibela 6y ago

I tried to build one in high school, but it did not work :( I think the school had a hand powered high voltage generator with some kind of leather band I took it to university and gave it to a professor who might have a more stable HV power supply. I got it back after a year, and they said it was too dangerous to try it out, or something

0_____0 6y ago
probably would have worked on a real hv supply. maybe time to reprise the experiment? :)

amelius 6y ago

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8CLhEU4jA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8CLhEU4jA By the way, if you like this then you might also like this video about acoustic levitation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjRnSYw-4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjRnSYw-4k

wolfram74 6y ago

This same principle has been incorporated in full blown air planes. Admittedly very short operational range at the moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IorDYGI1uqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IorDYGI1uqc

dharmab 6y ago
From reading their research, it seems the range was artificially limited to the size of the gym because the team didn't have access to a larger test area.

mrfusion 6y ago

I really think there’s a lot of potential for high voltage technologies. No one really explores it because it’s absolutely terrifying.

hatsunearu 6y ago

My first exposure to this was Steins;Gate. Bit obscure unless you take a close at the S;G lore though. It's merely a passing reference in the anime AFAIK

peter_d_sherman 6y ago

This effect has been known to the Internet for a long time... For example, here is a web page by Jean-Louis Naudin (Google his name + 'electrostatic' and/or 'lifter', etc.) which dates around February 14th, 2002: http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm ...and contains references a patent by Townsend Brown (Google his name also) "US Patent N°2949550" which dates around Aug 16, 1960 -- which also describes the effect... And of course, there may be other earlier patents, foreign and/or domestic, if one does the appropriate research... But it's nice that this effect gets some more publicity here on HN...