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And yet they are still online (edit: looks like they'll be online with AWS until 1159 PCT, my mistake) I am pretty sure that coordinated withdrawal of services

And yet they are still online (edit: looks like they'll be online with AWS until 1159 PCT, my mistake) I am pretty sure that coordinated withdrawal of services like this would amount to Tortious Interference wouldn't it? Given Parler/Foxx's pentant for exaggeration and playing the victim I'm a little incredulous to be honest. I don't like censorship or support it. Parler should stay, for all its issues. But that doesn't mean they're the victim of some giant conspiracy either.

pfisch 6y ago
I mean you can't run a site with no censorship where people are openly plotting the violent takeover of the us government and/or violent events. It is just a liability issue. This isn't some kind of censorship issue, that just isn't legal and never has been legal.
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  The great irony here is Parler DOES engage in loads of censorship (no parody, no Pro-Cannabis comments, no positive antifa comments, I don't think you can even be left wing on there). So I'm stuck defending a censorous site against censorship!? I am a weirdo, because a public site like Parler is exactly where I hope insurrection should be planned. Why wasn't the FBI ready to swoop and arrest actual violent people given they were posting their plans in plane view? Why are we relying on AWS to moderate away trumps lies and fix the US Political landscape? To me, killing parler (for all its shit-ness), is a perfect example of "we have to do something, and this is something". Does anyone actually think that if Parler had gone offline 4 weeks ago, the events of the last week would have been different? They'd have planned on twitter or Facebook or reddit or wherever. When can we solve the actual problems here (failure to deal with trump, a poor relationship with the truth for all politicians, law enforcement complete lack of interest in right wing threats, lack of basic security etc)? Censoring random websites seems like farting in a Jucuzzi, censorship is almost always a way of ignoring actual problems while pretending you are acting. And here we are again. Sorry, its late here in the UK and I'm ranting. Thanks for reading.
  - pfisch 6y ago
    I think widespread suppression of information about this planned protest would've mattered, but I don't think it was justified before the events at the capitol. Now I think it is a clear and easily foreseeable risk to allow this to continue.
    - LatteLazy 6y ago
      I'm all for arresting anyone who plans specific violence. Before/after the events at the capital, I don't care. Go arrest them. Banning one site just moves them to another and gives them a persecution complex. 12months in prison for conspiracy to commit public disorder is a much better deterant for future planned insurrections.
      - pfisch 6y ago
        So we should be referring everyone making idle threats on the internet to law enforcement? That seems unrealistic and honestly way more totalitarian than just moderation and censorship. I also don't think law enforcement has the bandwidth to deal with it.
        LatteLazy 6y ago
        If someone makes a specific threat, yes. Then when they get 50 referrals from r/knitting and 50mil from parlar, law enforcement can raise an eyebrow, investigate and prevent these things. To me, that seems fair and effective. The alternative is that we ban parlar. But only after the violence. And we know that banning parlar won't prevent this from happening, we're just moving the problem. Why bother? Keep parler, by now every second account should an FBI agent. It's even better than twitter/reddit/facebook: all the noise is gone, it's just the crazies planning violence...
  - randallsquared 6y ago
    > Why wasn't the FBI ready to swoop and arrest actual violent people given they were posting their plans in plane view? I assume because the vast majority of such posts were and are fantasies masquerading as plans, and there aren't the resources to set up stings for each such "plan".
- j8hn 6y ago
  According to the Washington Post, a lot of the planning was done on Facebook and Twitter. Edit: Interesting that researchers made their findings public weeks before this event that there was specific violence was planned to storm the Capitol. Source: Originally published in the Washington Post. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/capitol-siege-was-planned-online-trump-supporters-are-planning-the-next-one/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/capitol-siege-was-...
bpodgursky 6y ago
AWS isn't pulling the plug until tonight. It doesn't mean anything that the site is still up.
gameswithgo 6y ago
is it coordinated or is everyone just sick of them? their lawyers left too, they are not part of some silicon valley cabal
- throwaway189262 6y ago
  It's becoming obvious that the capital was stormed by crazies largely organized on the platform. It's coordinated in a way by companies realizing it's an enormous legal and political liability to have a relationship to them
  - j8hn 6y ago
    Is this true that it was largely organized on Parler? A Washington Post article said it was very visible on Twitter and Facebook.
    - LatteLazy 6y ago
      (not the person you replied to) I think its almost the inverse: if there were 1m comments on Facebook/Twitter about it, they're among 1trn other comments on Facebook/twitter. If there 100k comments on parler, that's 10 times less. But there are only 100k (edit: 250k) comments on parler total and they're often about violently defending trumps "victory".
      - j8hn 6y ago
        But the point is where was most of the planning for violence done? I realize you're not being literal about all the comments centered around violence on Parler. Or maybe you are? Are you saying most of the comments there are violent or a good number of them?
        LatteLazy 6y ago
        Sorry, I should have picked better numbers. I'm just saying many of the comments, I won't pretend I know "most" let alone all. It's too late to stop the violence that's already happened. That's cheap and I don't like it but it's true sadly. There are real questions to be asked why the FBI weren't all over this from day 1. They need to be asked because it's (literally) their job to prevent this. Im just suggesting really that we make the system work as it's meant to: FBI investigates, people plotting violence are intercepted before they commit it. Even if they are right wing nuts. Im also pretty convinced parler isn't "responsible" in the sense that if it didn't exist there wouldn't have been violence (that doesn't excuse them for profiting off it). It would have been coordinate on r/TheDonald or via Facebook or twitter or wherever. Parler wasn't even a thing for most of the last 4 years and this has been brewing at least that long in my opinion. That's actually why I would like the idea of prevention. Banning parler gives us all an excuse to go back to sleep till next time and then (again) say "how did this happen?". Thanks for listing to my rant!
JuliusMars 6y ago
they will be shut off at 11:59 pacific time.

pfisch 6y ago

I mean you can't run a site with no censorship where people are openly plotting the violent takeover of the us government and/or violent events. It is just a liability issue. This isn't some kind of censorship issue, that just isn't legal and never has been legal.

LatteLazy 6y ago
The great irony here is Parler DOES engage in loads of censorship (no parody, no Pro-Cannabis comments, no positive antifa comments, I don't think you can even be left wing on there). So I'm stuck defending a censorous site against censorship!? I am a weirdo, because a public site like Parler is exactly where I hope insurrection should be planned. Why wasn't the FBI ready to swoop and arrest actual violent people given they were posting their plans in plane view? Why are we relying on AWS to moderate away trumps lies and fix the US Political landscape? To me, killing parler (for all its shit-ness), is a perfect example of "we have to do something, and this is something". Does anyone actually think that if Parler had gone offline 4 weeks ago, the events of the last week would have been different? They'd have planned on twitter or Facebook or reddit or wherever. When can we solve the actual problems here (failure to deal with trump, a poor relationship with the truth for all politicians, law enforcement complete lack of interest in right wing threats, lack of basic security etc)? Censoring random websites seems like farting in a Jucuzzi, censorship is almost always a way of ignoring actual problems while pretending you are acting. And here we are again. Sorry, its late here in the UK and I'm ranting. Thanks for reading.
- pfisch 6y ago
  I think widespread suppression of information about this planned protest would've mattered, but I don't think it was justified before the events at the capitol. Now I think it is a clear and easily foreseeable risk to allow this to continue.
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    I'm all for arresting anyone who plans specific violence. Before/after the events at the capital, I don't care. Go arrest them. Banning one site just moves them to another and gives them a persecution complex. 12months in prison for conspiracy to commit public disorder is a much better deterant for future planned insurrections.
    - pfisch 6y ago
      So we should be referring everyone making idle threats on the internet to law enforcement? That seems unrealistic and honestly way more totalitarian than just moderation and censorship. I also don't think law enforcement has the bandwidth to deal with it.
      - LatteLazy 6y ago
        If someone makes a specific threat, yes. Then when they get 50 referrals from r/knitting and 50mil from parlar, law enforcement can raise an eyebrow, investigate and prevent these things. To me, that seems fair and effective. The alternative is that we ban parlar. But only after the violence. And we know that banning parlar won't prevent this from happening, we're just moving the problem. Why bother? Keep parler, by now every second account should an FBI agent. It's even better than twitter/reddit/facebook: all the noise is gone, it's just the crazies planning violence...
- randallsquared 6y ago
  > Why wasn't the FBI ready to swoop and arrest actual violent people given they were posting their plans in plane view? I assume because the vast majority of such posts were and are fantasies masquerading as plans, and there aren't the resources to set up stings for each such "plan".
j8hn 6y ago
According to the Washington Post, a lot of the planning was done on Facebook and Twitter. Edit: Interesting that researchers made their findings public weeks before this event that there was specific violence was planned to storm the Capitol. Source: Originally published in the Washington Post. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/capitol-siege-was-planned-online-trump-supporters-are-planning-the-next-one/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/capitol-siege-was-...

bpodgursky 6y ago

AWS isn't pulling the plug until tonight. It doesn't mean anything that the site is still up.

gameswithgo 6y ago

is it coordinated or is everyone just sick of them? their lawyers left too, they are not part of some silicon valley cabal

throwaway189262 6y ago
It's becoming obvious that the capital was stormed by crazies largely organized on the platform. It's coordinated in a way by companies realizing it's an enormous legal and political liability to have a relationship to them
- j8hn 6y ago
  Is this true that it was largely organized on Parler? A Washington Post article said it was very visible on Twitter and Facebook.
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    (not the person you replied to) I think its almost the inverse: if there were 1m comments on Facebook/Twitter about it, they're among 1trn other comments on Facebook/twitter. If there 100k comments on parler, that's 10 times less. But there are only 100k (edit: 250k) comments on parler total and they're often about violently defending trumps "victory".
    - j8hn 6y ago
      But the point is where was most of the planning for violence done? I realize you're not being literal about all the comments centered around violence on Parler. Or maybe you are? Are you saying most of the comments there are violent or a good number of them?
      - LatteLazy 6y ago
        Sorry, I should have picked better numbers. I'm just saying many of the comments, I won't pretend I know "most" let alone all. It's too late to stop the violence that's already happened. That's cheap and I don't like it but it's true sadly. There are real questions to be asked why the FBI weren't all over this from day 1. They need to be asked because it's (literally) their job to prevent this. Im just suggesting really that we make the system work as it's meant to: FBI investigates, people plotting violence are intercepted before they commit it. Even if they are right wing nuts. Im also pretty convinced parler isn't "responsible" in the sense that if it didn't exist there wouldn't have been violence (that doesn't excuse them for profiting off it). It would have been coordinate on r/TheDonald or via Facebook or twitter or wherever. Parler wasn't even a thing for most of the last 4 years and this has been brewing at least that long in my opinion. That's actually why I would like the idea of prevention. Banning parler gives us all an excuse to go back to sleep till next time and then (again) say "how did this happen?". Thanks for listing to my rant!

JuliusMars 6y ago

they will be shut off at 11:59 pacific time.