4 ms·

The author kinda lost me when he claimed the social mobility in USA is "shockingly low" pointing to the article showing it's just 13 percent points behind Norwa

by snicky 6y ago

The author kinda lost me when he claimed the social mobility in USA is "shockingly low" pointing to the article showing it's just 13 percent points behind Norway. That is not a shocking difference.

atemerev 6y ago
European social mobility is quite low in general. European countries are optimized for welfare, not social mobility. These are wildly different things.
- drchickensalad 6y ago
  I can't find any facts except the opposite http://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/ http://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/socia...
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    I wonder how this is measured. Especially the Roma population in Central Europe seems to be stuck in endless circle of crime and misery, regardless of money and effort poured into the ghettos. Roma who escape those conditions are rare, and they almost always marry someone "white" and move as far from their original community as possible.
- orange_tee 6y ago
  Yep. I would say it is even harder (and also the popular opinion here) to not be rich and become rich, in Europe. Social mobility here means that if you are born destitute you have a chance to become part of the middle-income class, where the middle-income class is significantly poorer than the American middle class.
  - atemerev 6y ago
    My point exactly.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    > Social mobility here means that if you are born destitute you have a chance to become part of the middle-income class I’m inclined to say that it’s pretty much a given. It’s really hard to be unable to live a sort of comfortable life in Europe (you might not have a brand new TV, but you’ll have your own house and Netflix).
    - orange_tee 6y ago
      It's not a given. Lots of people with low IQ or terrible character traits end up living in poverty by constantly fucking up.
    - atemerev 6y ago
      Your own house? Homeownership rates in Western Europe are ridiculously low. Here in Switzerland, many are renting for life.
      - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
        Parent probably meant renting not owning. Although in Europe there is some social housing poor people can buy, while if you're middle class you're kinda screwed as you're considered too rich to be allowed to buy into social housing but are too poor to afford buying into upper class housing and middle class housing in almost a disappearing species. You either live in the nice green quiet areas where all the old money is or you'll be a renter your whole life.
      - FlyingSaucer 6y ago
        Interesting to hear, in Belgium for example the homeownership rate seems high(speaking from living here for a while). The culture is very much geared towards buying a house, alone or with a spouse. It's also a small country where people don't move alot, which might mean that they don't value flexibility as much as larger countries where moving is generally over larger distances. Also, the banks offer very good rates for these types of loans if you have a stable job and prospect. Renting for very long periods seem like a waste for many people here.
yrimaxi 6y ago
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- the-dude 6y ago
  http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/ http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/
- roenxi 6y ago
  If an Indian or Chinese person wants to migrate to a country with GSMI above 70, going by raw numbers the best bet would be the US. Per-capita rates are good for scoring feel-good points, but the US is a magnet for migrants in absolute terms in a way not many other places manage.
robert_foss 6y ago
America is the 27th best country for social mobility. Who could have guessed that free access to healthcare and education matters. https://www.weforum.org/reports/global-social-mobility-index-2020-why-economies-benefit-from-fixing-inequality https://www.weforum.org/reports/global-social-mobility-index...
- i_am_proteus 6y ago
  Given that the social mobility index used in the report[0] uses access to healthcare and education, along with "social protections" as part of their ranking, it should come as absolutely no surprise that wealthy welfare democracies top the charts here. [0] http://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_Social_Mobility_Report.pdf http://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_Social_Mobility_Report.p...
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    Exactly this, there is no agreed upon standard on how to measure these sorts of things. Everyone has a bias.
mseidl 6y ago
America has a really high income inequality, they are 66th, they are literally up there with African countries.
- enaaem 6y ago
  The average Portuguese has a much lower income than the average black American. The EU income inequality is much higher if you you don't look within countries but across countries. This actually makes the EU more unstable than the US. Poor countries keep threatening they will leave and rich countries feel that poor countries are dragging them down. You don't have this dynamic in the States.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    You don't have this dynamic in the States. You do, there is a huge disparity between coastal states and the rest of America. You can see that in the political map. This leads to problems like we saw last week.
    - enaaem 6y ago
      Protests are nasty but there is no problem of secession like in the EU. Remember that Britain already left.
      - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        You could argue that is a useful safety valve (although I think it was a mistake on our part).
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    > The average Portuguese has a much lower income than the average black American. Doubt this. Especially if you consider PPP and their monthly expenses/how much they can save by month.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago

by snicky 6y ago

The author kinda lost me when he claimed the social mobility in USA is "shockingly low" pointing to the article showing it's just 13 percent points behind Norway. That is not a shocking difference.

atemerev 6y ago

European social mobility is quite low in general. European countries are optimized for welfare, not social mobility. These are wildly different things.

drchickensalad 6y ago
I can't find any facts except the opposite http://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/ http://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/socia...
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  I wonder how this is measured. Especially the Roma population in Central Europe seems to be stuck in endless circle of crime and misery, regardless of money and effort poured into the ghettos. Roma who escape those conditions are rare, and they almost always marry someone "white" and move as far from their original community as possible.
orange_tee 6y ago
Yep. I would say it is even harder (and also the popular opinion here) to not be rich and become rich, in Europe. Social mobility here means that if you are born destitute you have a chance to become part of the middle-income class, where the middle-income class is significantly poorer than the American middle class.
- atemerev 6y ago
  My point exactly.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > Social mobility here means that if you are born destitute you have a chance to become part of the middle-income class I’m inclined to say that it’s pretty much a given. It’s really hard to be unable to live a sort of comfortable life in Europe (you might not have a brand new TV, but you’ll have your own house and Netflix).
  - orange_tee 6y ago
    It's not a given. Lots of people with low IQ or terrible character traits end up living in poverty by constantly fucking up.
  - atemerev 6y ago
    Your own house? Homeownership rates in Western Europe are ridiculously low. Here in Switzerland, many are renting for life.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      Parent probably meant renting not owning. Although in Europe there is some social housing poor people can buy, while if you're middle class you're kinda screwed as you're considered too rich to be allowed to buy into social housing but are too poor to afford buying into upper class housing and middle class housing in almost a disappearing species. You either live in the nice green quiet areas where all the old money is or you'll be a renter your whole life.
    - FlyingSaucer 6y ago
      Interesting to hear, in Belgium for example the homeownership rate seems high(speaking from living here for a while). The culture is very much geared towards buying a house, alone or with a spouse. It's also a small country where people don't move alot, which might mean that they don't value flexibility as much as larger countries where moving is generally over larger distances. Also, the banks offer very good rates for these types of loans if you have a stable job and prospect. Renting for very long periods seem like a waste for many people here.

yrimaxi 6y ago

the-dude 6y ago
http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/ http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/
roenxi 6y ago
If an Indian or Chinese person wants to migrate to a country with GSMI above 70, going by raw numbers the best bet would be the US. Per-capita rates are good for scoring feel-good points, but the US is a magnet for migrants in absolute terms in a way not many other places manage.

robert_foss 6y ago

America is the 27th best country for social mobility. Who could have guessed that free access to healthcare and education matters. https://www.weforum.org/reports/global-social-mobility-index-2020-why-economies-benefit-from-fixing-inequality https://www.weforum.org/reports/global-social-mobility-index...

i_am_proteus 6y ago
Given that the social mobility index used in the report[0] uses access to healthcare and education, along with "social protections" as part of their ranking, it should come as absolutely no surprise that wealthy welfare democracies top the charts here. [0] http://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_Social_Mobility_Report.pdf http://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_Social_Mobility_Report.p...
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Exactly this, there is no agreed upon standard on how to measure these sorts of things. Everyone has a bias.

mseidl 6y ago

America has a really high income inequality, they are 66th, they are literally up there with African countries.

enaaem 6y ago
The average Portuguese has a much lower income than the average black American. The EU income inequality is much higher if you you don't look within countries but across countries. This actually makes the EU more unstable than the US. Poor countries keep threatening they will leave and rich countries feel that poor countries are dragging them down. You don't have this dynamic in the States.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  You don't have this dynamic in the States. You do, there is a huge disparity between coastal states and the rest of America. You can see that in the political map. This leads to problems like we saw last week.
  - enaaem 6y ago
    Protests are nasty but there is no problem of secession like in the EU. Remember that Britain already left.
    - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
      You could argue that is a useful safety valve (although I think it was a mistake on our part).
- raverbashing 6y ago
  > The average Portuguese has a much lower income than the average black American. Doubt this. Especially if you consider PPP and their monthly expenses/how much they can save by month.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago