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My family has had to live through the Nazi invasion of my grandparents' home country, and my parents had to live through multiple military dictatorships. Throw

My family has had to live through the Nazi invasion of my grandparents' home country, and my parents had to live through multiple military dictatorships. Throw in Umberto Eco's essay on Ur-fascism and yeah, I just might have an idea of what I'm talking about.

trident5000 6y ago
Ok, well my parents for instance are on Parler. They are the furthest things you would ever know from fascists and have friends from all different backgrounds. Lets stop painting 70 million voters or even an entire platform with 6 million people as facists. Twitter has a lot of shitty people on there as well but we dont use mass labels.
- rriepe 6y ago
  6 million? No way the number is that high.
  - trident5000 6y ago
    8 million and half are active. Thats what I'm getting on a search anyway.
    - Daishiman 6y ago
      In most democratic countries it's quite common to see actual fascists in elections getting 5-15% of the vote. It is very much a fact that that's erring on the smaller side of the proportion of people in democratic societies who hold authoritarian positions.
      - rriepe 6y ago
        What does "fascist" mean?
        pmiller2 6y ago
        > Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions
        trident5000 6y ago
        "far-right" just to be clear that can mean anything and has throughout history. It also easily flips. The key thing to focus on is "authoritarian" which can occur within any political party. pmiller2 The fact that youre saying both american parties are right wing is exactly what im trying to point out. The labels are pointless, people just call themselves whatever they want. The actions are the actions.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        No, it really isn't. It's both. That you choose to believe that "far right" is some ineffable quality does not mean others may not 'ef' it. In all honesty, both major American parties are quite right wing. We just have the ultra right party, and the slightly less right wing party.
        rriepe 6y ago
        I always thought it was a portmanteau of "failed" and "socialism."
        pmiller2 6y ago
        Fascism is in no way related to socialism. They are about as opposite on the political scale as you can get.
        trident5000 6y ago
        Debatable. Socialism is depriving people of the right to own private property and instead having a central authoritative figure decide who gets what. That sounds like fascism to me. And no public services is not socialism. The fire department is a public service funded by the capital markets. People like to confuse this.
- mlyle 6y ago
  The thing is, a whole lot of people who stood behind the Nazi party and enabled the evil were decent folks. Do you think Germany was just full of evildoers in the 30's? That's one of the scary things about fascism and authoritarianism. It can coopt decent people into enabling the suppression of their fellow man.
  - trident5000 6y ago
    See this is where the sides are not seeing eye to eye. "It can coopt decent people into enabling the suppression of their fellow man" - this is exactly what the right side thinks is happening to them. Each side thinks its the other. mlyle: I think we need to be a bit fair here. Its not the entire voting base its the fringe. There were many who wanted election answers but did not advocate overthrowing the govt or storming the capital. Just like the fringe leftists caused riots for an entire summer, looting businesses and setting fires. We have an extremist issue on either side while moderates are throwing their hands up.
    - mlyle 6y ago
      And I think the Nazis had a list of a lot of legitimate sounding grievances, too. So I guess we just can't judge. I'm sorry: one side doesn't get to ignore due process of law and try and overrun Congress, and then continue in the next days to make violent threats. If that can't be controlled on a platform, it's not surprising others don't want to have business relationships with that platform. People charged the Capitol screaming for Pence's head. Then the next day, we have Lin Wood (whom Trump has repeatedly amplified) on Parler saying "Get the firing squads ready. Pence goes FIRST." Is this maybe out of bounds? Do we not think there's any chance that this call for violence might be heeded?
    - wtallis 6y ago
      > this is exactly what the right side thinks is happening to them. Each side thinks its the other. The symmetry is pretty shallow, though. If you look past the grievances about being criticized and ostracized by the other side and dig into the underlying public policy goals, it's pretty easy to spot categorical differences. When a BLM protestor talks about equal protection under law, they're referring to not getting shot by the government. When an alt-right protestor can be coaxed into listing the ways in which their legal rights are being infringed, they start bringing up stuff like the right to fire someone for being LGBTQ.

trident5000 6y ago

Ok, well my parents for instance are on Parler. They are the furthest things you would ever know from fascists and have friends from all different backgrounds. Lets stop painting 70 million voters or even an entire platform with 6 million people as facists. Twitter has a lot of shitty people on there as well but we dont use mass labels.

rriepe 6y ago
6 million? No way the number is that high.
- trident5000 6y ago
  8 million and half are active. Thats what I'm getting on a search anyway.
  - Daishiman 6y ago
    In most democratic countries it's quite common to see actual fascists in elections getting 5-15% of the vote. It is very much a fact that that's erring on the smaller side of the proportion of people in democratic societies who hold authoritarian positions.
    - rriepe 6y ago
      What does "fascist" mean?
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        > Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions
        trident5000 6y ago
        "far-right" just to be clear that can mean anything and has throughout history. It also easily flips. The key thing to focus on is "authoritarian" which can occur within any political party. pmiller2 The fact that youre saying both american parties are right wing is exactly what im trying to point out. The labels are pointless, people just call themselves whatever they want. The actions are the actions.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        No, it really isn't. It's both. That you choose to believe that "far right" is some ineffable quality does not mean others may not 'ef' it. In all honesty, both major American parties are quite right wing. We just have the ultra right party, and the slightly less right wing party.
        rriepe 6y ago
        I always thought it was a portmanteau of "failed" and "socialism."
        pmiller2 6y ago
        Fascism is in no way related to socialism. They are about as opposite on the political scale as you can get.
        trident5000 6y ago
        Debatable. Socialism is depriving people of the right to own private property and instead having a central authoritative figure decide who gets what. That sounds like fascism to me. And no public services is not socialism. The fire department is a public service funded by the capital markets. People like to confuse this.
mlyle 6y ago
The thing is, a whole lot of people who stood behind the Nazi party and enabled the evil were decent folks. Do you think Germany was just full of evildoers in the 30's? That's one of the scary things about fascism and authoritarianism. It can coopt decent people into enabling the suppression of their fellow man.
- trident5000 6y ago
  See this is where the sides are not seeing eye to eye. "It can coopt decent people into enabling the suppression of their fellow man" - this is exactly what the right side thinks is happening to them. Each side thinks its the other. mlyle: I think we need to be a bit fair here. Its not the entire voting base its the fringe. There were many who wanted election answers but did not advocate overthrowing the govt or storming the capital. Just like the fringe leftists caused riots for an entire summer, looting businesses and setting fires. We have an extremist issue on either side while moderates are throwing their hands up.
  - mlyle 6y ago
    And I think the Nazis had a list of a lot of legitimate sounding grievances, too. So I guess we just can't judge. I'm sorry: one side doesn't get to ignore due process of law and try and overrun Congress, and then continue in the next days to make violent threats. If that can't be controlled on a platform, it's not surprising others don't want to have business relationships with that platform. People charged the Capitol screaming for Pence's head. Then the next day, we have Lin Wood (whom Trump has repeatedly amplified) on Parler saying "Get the firing squads ready. Pence goes FIRST." Is this maybe out of bounds? Do we not think there's any chance that this call for violence might be heeded?
  - wtallis 6y ago
    > this is exactly what the right side thinks is happening to them. Each side thinks its the other. The symmetry is pretty shallow, though. If you look past the grievances about being criticized and ostracized by the other side and dig into the underlying public policy goals, it's pretty easy to spot categorical differences. When a BLM protestor talks about equal protection under law, they're referring to not getting shot by the government. When an alt-right protestor can be coaxed into listing the ways in which their legal rights are being infringed, they start bringing up stuff like the right to fire someone for being LGBTQ.