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Yes, fascists living in their own bubble end up congregating just with fascists because most of the rest of society doesn't want anything to do with them. This
by Daishiman 6y ago
Yes, fascists living in their own bubble end up congregating just with fascists because most of the rest of society doesn't want anything to do with them. This is a recurring theme in history.
- trident5000 6y agoYou keep saying that word but I'm not sure you know what it means.
- Daishiman 6y agoMy family has had to live through the Nazi invasion of my grandparents' home country, and my parents had to live through multiple military dictatorships. Throw in Umberto Eco's essay on Ur-fascism and yeah, I just might have an idea of what I'm talking about.
- trident5000 6y agoOk, well my parents for instance are on Parler. They are the furthest things you would ever know from fascists and have friends from all different backgrounds. Lets stop painting 70 million voters or even an entire platform with 6 million people as facists. Twitter has a lot of shitty people on there as well but we dont use mass labels.
- rriepe 6y ago6 million? No way the number is that high.
- trident5000 6y ago8 million and half are active. Thats what I'm getting on a search anyway.
- Daishiman 6y agoIn most democratic countries it's quite common to see actual fascists in elections getting 5-15% of the vote. It is very much a fact that that's erring on the smaller side of the proportion of people in democratic societies who hold authoritarian positions.
- rriepe 6y agoWhat does "fascist" mean?
- pmiller2 6y ago> Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions
- trident5000 6y ago"far-right" just to be clear that can mean anything and has throughout history. It also easily flips. The key thing to focus on is "authoritarian" which can occur within any political party. pmiller2 The fact that youre saying both american parties are right wing is exactly what im trying to point out. The labels are pointless, people just call themselves whatever they want. The actions are the actions.
- pmiller2 6y agoNo, it really isn't. It's both. That you choose to believe that "far right" is some ineffable quality does not mean others may not 'ef' it. In all honesty, both major American parties are quite right wing. We just have the ultra right party, and the slightly less right wing party.
- rriepe 6y ago
- mlyle 6y agoThe thing is, a whole lot of people who stood behind the Nazi party and enabled the evil were decent folks. Do you think Germany was just full of evildoers in the 30's? That's one of the scary things about fascism and authoritarianism. It can coopt decent people into enabling the suppression of their fellow man.
- trident5000 6y agoSee this is where the sides are not seeing eye to eye. "It can coopt decent people into enabling the suppression of their fellow man" - this is exactly what the right side thinks is happening to them. Each side thinks its the other. mlyle: I think we need to be a bit fair here. Its not the entire voting base its the fringe. There were many who wanted election answers but did not advocate overthrowing the govt or storming the capital. Just like the fringe leftists caused riots for an entire summer, looting businesses and setting fires. We have an extremist issue on either side while moderates are throwing their hands up.
- mlyle 6y agoAnd I think the Nazis had a list of a lot of legitimate sounding grievances, too. So I guess we just can't judge. I'm sorry: one side doesn't get to ignore due process of law and try and overrun Congress, and then continue in the next days to make violent threats. If that can't be controlled on a platform, it's not surprising others don't want to have business relationships with that platform. People charged the Capitol screaming for Pence's head. Then the next day, we have Lin Wood (whom Trump has repeatedly amplified) on Parler saying "Get the firing squads ready. Pence goes FIRST." Is this maybe out of bounds? Do we not think there's any chance that this call for violence might be heeded?
- wtallis 6y ago> this is exactly what the right side thinks is happening to them. Each side thinks its the other. The symmetry is pretty shallow, though. If you look past the grievances about being criticized and ostracized by the other side and dig into the underlying public policy goals, it's pretty easy to spot categorical differences. When a BLM protestor talks about equal protection under law, they're referring to not getting shot by the government. When an alt-right protestor can be coaxed into listing the ways in which their legal rights are being infringed, they start bringing up stuff like the right to fire someone for being LGBTQ.
- aaomidi 6y agoSo what do you define fascism as?
- trident5000 6y agoTheres going to be several interpretations but for me the spirit of a fascist is simply someone who wants to control, oppress, and silence their ideology opposition. You're going to see colors of this in either party. It is usually the fringe or a systemic issue. Claiming whole parties or large swaths of people are fascists is often times going to be inaccurate.
- dashundchen 6y agoOrganizing a putsch to decapitate a branch of government and stop the certification of a fair and democratic election is pretty fascist to me.
- trident5000 6y agoThats specifically why I said you're going to see colors of this in both sides. In particular the fringe left and right.
- Ancapistani 6y agoThere are a lot more people on Parler already than there are fascists. Consider what this looks - and feels - like from their perspective. I’m actively watching people I grew up with who have never been involved in politics at all become increasingly aware of this push. Do you think they’re going to be open to liberalism when this is their first interaction with it as an ideology?
- lumpenprole 6y agoSo they slept through four years of Trump and this outrage is the first step in their Great Awakening? I'll go out on a limb and suggest that they were never going to be "open to liberalism" in the first place.
- yew 6y agoAnyone using the place is a fascist by definition. If they haven't been involved in politics until now, their perspective doesn't deserve to be heard.
- concordDance 6y agoYour post inspired me to track down an old essay I saw on arguing by definition: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/cFzC996D7Jjds3vS9/arguing-by-definition https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/cFzC996D7Jjds3vS9/arguing-by...
- holler 6y agoI don't think that type of language helps anything. Are you suggesting that conservatism is now synonymous with fascism? It seems ludicrous to suggest that millions of conservatives across the US are fascists. It isn't productive nor does it offer any solutions for people to communicate, resolve their differences, and coexist.
- shadowgovt 6y agoTrump support is now synonymous with fascism. The die was cast when Congress was attacked in an attempted coup. Not all conservatives are Trump supporters.
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y agoTrump won 74MM votes, I think it's safe to say for that all intents and purposes a conservative is a Trump supporter. https://www.cfr.org/blog/2020-election-numbers https://www.cfr.org/blog/2020-election-numbers
- walls 6y agoThe vast majority support overturning the election to install their own leader. What would you call that?
- holler 6y ago> The vast majority support overturning the election to install their own leader That's an opinion and a generalization of tens of millions of people.
- lumpenprole 6y agoTens of millions of people who are, and always have been, more concerned about fake voter fraud than actual voter suppression.
- CamperBob2 6y agoIt's an opinion backed up by solid, repeatable polling of Republicans and conservatives in general. Example: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/2020-election-results-almost-no-trump-voters-consider-biden-the-winner.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/2020-election-results-almost...
- swader999 6y agoI think we can all agree that a key tenancy of fascism is suppression of dissent, often violently. These companies effectively are the public square.