6 ms·

Can I buy a phone that doesn’t use anything from Google or Apple?

jqpabc123 6y ago
https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Article mentions them as an ASOP derived effort. So not entirely free of Google.
  - flas9sd 6y ago
    not free of technological direction for sure, but free of Google services. The article highlights both topics. I think /e/ is a good shot at starting from friendly defaults today and not alienating users. But as the article rightly concludes: the web+app economies on top of the operating systems are data fueled too.
  - jqpabc123 6y ago
    Google is a top 10 contributor to the Linux kernel. By your definition, Linux is not "entirely free of Google" either. e/OS removes any Google dependencies or contact with Google services. The objective being to eliminate any Google knowledge of, contact with or control over the operation of the device. This is about as "Google free" as it gets. This post was made using a Moto G4 Play running e/OS.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      > Google is a top 10 contributor to the Linux kernel. By your definition, Linux is not "entirely free of Google" either. Google does not decide how Linux kernel development proceeds, so it's not comparable. > This is about as "Google free" as it gets. No, it's not. Have a look at https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 and https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/.
beagle3 6y ago
Article mentions Librem, KaiOS and Jolla but fails to mention PinePhone which is (IMO) the most promising echo system so far. Also, there's PostMarketOS which is Google/Apple free, though you'd have to buy a Googled device and install it yourself (and ... it's not remotely close to being usable day-to-day last I heard)
- fsflover 6y ago
  Why is Pinephone the most promising ecosystem? In fact more than half of its users run Phosh written by Purism for Librem 5. There are no paid developers for Pinephone.
  - agsdfagsd 6y ago
    Because it is affordable, and more importantly, because it shipped. I'm thankful for the open source work the folks at Purism have put out, but the reality of the situation is that I can drop $800 and wait a few months on a Librem, or I can drop $150 and wait a few weeks on a Pinephone. If I splurge and spend $50 more ($200), I even end up with a Pinephone with more RAM than the Librem. The only real wins for the Librem are aesthetics (it's pretty), an ever so slightly higher clock speed on the ARM64 cores, and a GPU that is historically better supported by open source software. The final point is of less and less concern every day now that Mali is seeing open source support.
    - rfd4sgmk8u 6y ago
      I bought a Pinephone PostmarketOS Edition. I'm going to be honest, at worst it is e-waste, at best a toy. You wouldn't really use it as a phone. Its too slow, too flaky, feature lacking. Pinephone is a very raw product lacking basic functionality that would be essential in modern phone - encryption at rest is one. One day, it might turn into a usable product, but there are many, many years from this being something you would actually want to carry. It feels less useful than the first iphones a decade ago. That being said, I would strongly support people buying these devices and building the ecosystem. We need alternatives. The reality is today you have no escape from the big players if you want a modern usable phone device. Maybe in n years.
stevespang 6y ago
. . . . runs the KaiOS operating system, in which Google has invested $22 million. If Google has invested $22 million, that means they BOUGHT rights to gather all your info, same as they did with Apple default search. So avoid KaiOS.
umeshunni 6y ago
Yes, there are plenty of Chinese phones that the blogger can buy.
- Kuraj 6y ago
  While technically true, I feel that the argument here is that it's hard to buy a phone that doesn't needlessly track everything you do. When you buy a Chinese smartphone, all you're doing is replacing Google/Apple with a Chinese company that still does all that.
  - rurban 6y ago
    Yes, but you would not care about the information the Chinese government collects about you. Neither do they, unless you start doing political business with them. Very unlikely.
    - meowster 6y ago
      That's very shortsighted. You may not, but who knows about your friends, family, coworkers, etc. Even if you didn't have ties to China, or know anyone who does, foreign agents can still use that data against you in your home country if they decide they need you to do something (maybe you don't work on classified stuff, but you're a janitor that has access, or one of a million other possibilities). Lots of spying isn't done by foreign adversaries, it's done by the locals they recruit either via money/gifts, thrill, blackmail, etc.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  "Google free" means phone without Android OS.
fsflover 6y ago
(2019)
phasnox 6y ago
GrapheneOS anyone? Have not tried it myself. But it looks very promising.
- acct776 6y ago
  Wouldn't waste my time with anything besides it, or Calyx. Lineage etc break the Android OSP security model.
  - byhemechi 6y ago
    GrapheneOS is AOSP, not lineage based. It has the full android security model, even allowing a locked bootloader, plus several extras like a hardened `malloc`. Don't know what you're getting at with that.
cracksmoka420 6y ago
You probably dont want to buy a Samsung phone eother because Samsung is just as bad as apple. Google pixel phones are actually the best mainstream phones because they have unlocked bootloaders. That means you can install whatever OS on it or root them of you want.
pjmlp 6y ago
> In general, the problem with Linux on smartphones looks much like its problem on PCs. Many and various groups enjoy developing new versions of the operating system, which are all more or less doomed from birth. None of them have the skills, the interests or the money to create viable platforms that include the hardware, apps, services, packaging, marketing, advertising, distribution and support on the sort of scale needed to sustain a real product. Without those, they are unlikely to attract much interest beyond hobbyists and enthusiasts. And this is why no matter what they will keep failing.

https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/

paulryanrogers 6y ago
Article mentions them as an ASOP derived effort. So not entirely free of Google.
- flas9sd 6y ago
  not free of technological direction for sure, but free of Google services. The article highlights both topics. I think /e/ is a good shot at starting from friendly defaults today and not alienating users. But as the article rightly concludes: the web+app economies on top of the operating systems are data fueled too.
- jqpabc123 6y ago
  Google is a top 10 contributor to the Linux kernel. By your definition, Linux is not "entirely free of Google" either. e/OS removes any Google dependencies or contact with Google services. The objective being to eliminate any Google knowledge of, contact with or control over the operation of the device. This is about as "Google free" as it gets. This post was made using a Moto G4 Play running e/OS.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    > Google is a top 10 contributor to the Linux kernel. By your definition, Linux is not "entirely free of Google" either. Google does not decide how Linux kernel development proceeds, so it's not comparable. > This is about as "Google free" as it gets. No, it's not. Have a look at https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 and https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/.

Article mentions Librem, KaiOS and Jolla but fails to mention PinePhone which is (IMO) the most promising echo system so far. Also, there's PostMarketOS which is Google/Apple free, though you'd have to buy a Googled device and install it yourself (and ... it's not remotely close to being usable day-to-day last I heard)

fsflover 6y ago
Why is Pinephone the most promising ecosystem? In fact more than half of its users run Phosh written by Purism for Librem 5. There are no paid developers for Pinephone.
- agsdfagsd 6y ago
  Because it is affordable, and more importantly, because it shipped. I'm thankful for the open source work the folks at Purism have put out, but the reality of the situation is that I can drop $800 and wait a few months on a Librem, or I can drop $150 and wait a few weeks on a Pinephone. If I splurge and spend $50 more ($200), I even end up with a Pinephone with more RAM than the Librem. The only real wins for the Librem are aesthetics (it's pretty), an ever so slightly higher clock speed on the ARM64 cores, and a GPU that is historically better supported by open source software. The final point is of less and less concern every day now that Mali is seeing open source support.
  - rfd4sgmk8u 6y ago
    I bought a Pinephone PostmarketOS Edition. I'm going to be honest, at worst it is e-waste, at best a toy. You wouldn't really use it as a phone. Its too slow, too flaky, feature lacking. Pinephone is a very raw product lacking basic functionality that would be essential in modern phone - encryption at rest is one. One day, it might turn into a usable product, but there are many, many years from this being something you would actually want to carry. It feels less useful than the first iphones a decade ago. That being said, I would strongly support people buying these devices and building the ecosystem. We need alternatives. The reality is today you have no escape from the big players if you want a modern usable phone device. Maybe in n years.

stevespang 6y ago

. . . . runs the KaiOS operating system, in which Google has invested $22 million. If Google has invested $22 million, that means they BOUGHT rights to gather all your info, same as they did with Apple default search. So avoid KaiOS.

umeshunni 6y ago

Yes, there are plenty of Chinese phones that the blogger can buy.

Kuraj 6y ago
While technically true, I feel that the argument here is that it's hard to buy a phone that doesn't needlessly track everything you do. When you buy a Chinese smartphone, all you're doing is replacing Google/Apple with a Chinese company that still does all that.
- rurban 6y ago
  Yes, but you would not care about the information the Chinese government collects about you. Neither do they, unless you start doing political business with them. Very unlikely.
  - meowster 6y ago
    That's very shortsighted. You may not, but who knows about your friends, family, coworkers, etc. Even if you didn't have ties to China, or know anyone who does, foreign agents can still use that data against you in your home country if they decide they need you to do something (maybe you don't work on classified stuff, but you're a janitor that has access, or one of a million other possibilities). Lots of spying isn't done by foreign adversaries, it's done by the locals they recruit either via money/gifts, thrill, blackmail, etc.
webmobdev 6y ago
"Google free" means phone without Android OS.

fsflover 6y ago

(2019)

phasnox 6y ago

GrapheneOS anyone? Have not tried it myself. But it looks very promising.

acct776 6y ago
Wouldn't waste my time with anything besides it, or Calyx. Lineage etc break the Android OSP security model.
- byhemechi 6y ago
  GrapheneOS is AOSP, not lineage based. It has the full android security model, even allowing a locked bootloader, plus several extras like a hardened `malloc`. Don't know what you're getting at with that.

cracksmoka420 6y ago

You probably dont want to buy a Samsung phone eother because Samsung is just as bad as apple. Google pixel phones are actually the best mainstream phones because they have unlocked bootloaders. That means you can install whatever OS on it or root them of you want.

pjmlp 6y ago

> In general, the problem with Linux on smartphones looks much like its problem on PCs. Many and various groups enjoy developing new versions of the operating system, which are all more or less doomed from birth. None of them have the skills, the interests or the money to create viable platforms that include the hardware, apps, services, packaging, marketing, advertising, distribution and support on the sort of scale needed to sustain a real product. Without those, they are unlikely to attract much interest beyond hobbyists and enthusiasts. And this is why no matter what they will keep failing.