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Sriwijaya Air flight #SJ182 lost more than 10.000 feet of altitude in less than one minute, about 4 minutes after departure from Jakarta. https://twitter.com/f
by ffpip 6y ago
Sriwijaya Air flight #SJ182 lost more than 10.000 feet of altitude in less than one minute, about 4 minutes after departure from Jakarta.
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1347850078644563969 https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1347850078644563969
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/pk-clc#26860e0e https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/pk-clc#26860e0e
- K0balt 6y agoWow. that rate of descent, and so shortly after takeoff (no time/altutude for hypoxia, etc) points strongly to a major structural failure or at least a catastrophic failure of flight control systems. In that phase of flight, pressurization would be just starting to build, I wonder how many cycles that 26 year old airframe has on it? Also, is it known if there was anyone of major political or financial consequence on board? Getting to that altitude is also a common trigger for barometric switches.
- Reason077 6y agoSuicide by pilot is another possibility. It's certainly happened before (SilkAir 185, EgyptAir 990, Germanwings 9525, possibly Malaysian 370)
- w0utert 6y agoJudging from the flight path and altitude data that seems extremely unlikely, it looks like the plane just fell apart and came down like a brick in an instant.
- Reason077 6y agoI'm not sure that alone rules anything out. If we look at the flight profile of EgyptAir 990, for example, it dropped 15,000 feet in about 30 seconds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990#/media/File:Msr990-ntsb-f1.jpeg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990#/media/Fil...
- hnarn 6y agoHow does that make a suicidal pilot “extremely unlikely”? That’s exactly what I’d expect a plane directed downwards to look like.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y agoDoes the airline have a two-person rule for the flight-deck and/or lockable doors though? What concerns me about the cockpit lockable doors is how obviously it would lead to tragedy (e.g. Germanwings) - I’d have hoped that the locks would open if unusual aircraft attitude changes were detected - because what’s the point of keeping the cockpit door locked if the aircraft is already erratic? Chances are something weird is going on in the flight deck and it’s in the pax’ best-interests if the cabin-crew can get in.
- nOObie1 6y agoIf the plane was in a steep dive, the G-forces would be pushing you toward the tail of the aircraft making it very hard to get into the cockpit.
- amelius 6y agoI wonder how "walkable" a plane is after it takes a nosedive, and if the type of doors would make any difference in one's ability to reach the cockpit.
- lolc 6y agoZero-g is very disorienting to humans. But an experienced pilot could probably handle it and push themselves towards the cockpit.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- stretchcat 6y agoAn experienced airline pilot almost certainly has zero experience moving around in zero-g. Pilots just aren't trained for moving around a freefalling airplane. There are only a handful of 'vomit comets' in existence that could provide such training, and I've never heard of airline pilots being trained in them.
- cm2187 6y agoAlso you wouldn't expect a single pilot to be in the cockpit at that stage of the flight.
- e_proxus 6y agoWhat damage could a co-pilot cause even with another pilot present? A steep enough descent might not be recoverable under certain conditions?
- DaiPlusPlus 6y agoAircraft are designed to not enter those “certain conditions” by default - I understand the PF needs to override the flight-control-law to intentionally crash the plane, but I don’t think there’s a two-person-rule before that can happen. Anyway - this is why I’m glad I’m not involved in safety-engineering because supposing that setting sensible defaults that reduce accidents in 99.999% of cases would lead to horrible terrifying deaths in 0.001% of cases (e.g. one-way lockable reinforced cockpit doors) would be too much on my mind.
- ericbarrett 6y agoGermanwings Flight 9525[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525
- numpad0 6y agoThat was F/O without another pilot present
- asd4232 6y agoSome more modern aircraft indeed have such protections, but this was an old 737 without any such stuff. Simply pushing the control column fully forward would send the plane into a dive pretty quickly.
- 6y ago
- asd4232 6y agoUsually when a plane "falls apart" you'll have an accident scene with larger pieces intact compared to a plane nosediving to the ground in one piece.
- cambalache 6y agoIf you look at my comments you will see that I am generally against American powerful institutions and the sadly common American arrogance, but in these kind of things I am 100% behind the American mindset. How convenient that all these clearly suicide-by-pilot incidents are called "inconclusive" by the national , non-US, agency. Is saving face a price worth paying for? This does not help anybody and basically protects a person, who no matter how troubled and depressed, was in essence a mass-murderer.
- kepler1 6y agoBTW what do you mean by the American mindset?
- cambalache 6y agotruth over feelings, appearances or face saving. Not always true, but pretty much spot on in air disasters investigations
- Denvercoder9 6y ago> How convenient that all these clearly suicide-by-pilot incidents are called "inconclusive" by the national , non-US, agency. The French and German agencies investigating Germanwings 9525 ruled it a suicide.
- cambalache 6y agoI thought about saying "western" mindset, but I didnt want to open that can of worms
- dehrmann 6y agoThe 737-Classic is more reliable than humans, so some amount of human error would be my first guess.
- TeaDrunk 6y agoI think this might be ruled out- Indonesian news sources have cited sounds of explosions as well as an eyewitness account of the plane exploding in midair. If it's pilot suicide, it's certainly unconventional.
- FabHK 6y agoEyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. Wouldn't put much stock in that for now.
- clon 6y agoPlease don't. This is unsubstantiated bullshit at this point. It is a lot more likely that they fought the plane (or their own somatogravic illusion, or ..?) to the bitter end. To put pilot suicide out there, requires some supporting evidence on your part.
- stingraycharles 6y agoI think most of speculation in this thread is mostly unsubstantiated, as we know nearly nothing. I think it’s fine that the parent points this out, at the very least should not be berated like this.
- bb88 6y agoFun fact. When I flew Delta for the 4 years before the pandemic, anytime a pilot used the restroom, it was mandatory that a flight attendant take their place -- for exactly this reason. Sit in first class long enough you begin to get comfortable with common flight procedures. Keep in mind it's not that the flight attendant can pilot a plane, it's that they can unlock the door to let the other pilot back in the cockpit. While it is unlikely, it's still a possibility, and one that Delta, at least, is worried about happening.
- Reason077 6y agoYes. But there are, of course, plenty of reasons why this policy is a good idea besides the unlikely possibility of malicious/suicidal actions on the part of a pilot.
- bb88 6y agoNo. That's pretty much the main reason.
- Reason077 6y agoNo, it’s one reason but it’s far from the only reason. Medical events and incidents that cause incapacitation of a flying pilot are rare, but less rare than suicide by pilot incidents. Consider what would have happened on BA 5390, for example, if only one pilot had been in the cockpit with the cockpit door locked.
- wp381640 6y ago25+ yo airframe, Island hopping, budget airline, Indonesia All points to fuselage maintenance
- numpad0 6y agoDid they figure the pickle fork issue?
- nealabq 6y agohttps://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/01/boeing-737-cracks-how-common-are-they-and-should-you-be-worried https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/01/boeing-737-...
- HarryHirsch 6y agoNot applicable, that problem was introduced in 1997 with the 737-NG. This aircraft here was manufactured in 1994.
- xvf22 6y agoOr wiring given the 737 history but then again, it's a shot in the dark.
- flatiron 6y agoWhat wiring issue would get you nose down?
- quattrofan 6y agoA fire and then damage to control surface connections.
- coredog64 6y ago737 isn’t FBW.
- asd4232 6y agoIf the weather was bad it could also be caused by a pilot getting disoriented, or perhaps an instrument failure. Plenty of aircraft with perfectly working flight controls have been nosedived to the ground either due to spatial disorientation, or pilots believing a faulty attitude indicator. Of course suicide is another possibility in such cases.
- TedShiller 6y agoTrue. That happened to Atlas-Air 3591. Investigation conclusion was basically bad pilot.
- imaginenore 6y agoOr an intentional suicide by pilot.
- helsinkiandrew 6y agoIf the flightradar route ends where it crashed (and it wasn't just when the ADS was turned off) then that is only in 15-20M of water so wreckage and black box will be retrievable.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]