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yet both 2020 candidates have spoken of an outright repeal of Section 230. Biden has said it should be "revoked immediately." 2021 is not going to be a good y

yet both 2020 candidates have spoken of an outright repeal of Section 230. Biden has said it should be "revoked immediately." 2021 is not going to be a good year for internet freedoms.

kadoban 6y ago
We had a free internet (as much as it ever was) before Facebook and Twitter though. Is section 230 really about internet freedoms? Walk me through your thinking if you would? In my mind the major effect of 230 is promoting centralized sites that really don't seem to have any good effect on society.
- nabla9 6y ago
  230 protects all intermediaries equally.
- vharuck 6y ago
  Section 230 was used to defend a public library from a lawsuit after a kid used its computers to look at porn. It protects hobby websites where members share knitting tips. It protects Hacker News. Repealing it would be disastrous.
- mreome 6y ago
  Section 230 protects all entities with user-generated content, that includes Facebook and Twitter as well as Uncle Frank's Model Train Forum. The repeal of 230 would essentially cement those centralized sites as the sole platforms however, as Uncle Frank doesn't have paid moderation teams or a legal department, and only makes $7.44 ad revenue each month. Frank won't be able to afford the legal costs if someone starts spamming it with libelous content and he's busy and doesn't get around to taking the posts down for a couple days.
  - adolph 6y ago
    People said that about sales tax too. Somehow things sorted out afterwards and online sales survived.
    - mreome 6y ago
      A violation of sales tax law can only be addressed by the government. The protections provided by Section 230 are from everyone who might not like something about you, your site, or your users. It's the difference between the government having tanks and all your neighbors having tanks. Beyond that, I'm not saying online discourse won't survive, I'm saying that repealing Section 230 could lead to things being sorted out afterwards with the closure of the few remaining independent platforms and the cementing of the current centralized players who can afford to operate without the protections of Section 230. Arguably the complexity of inter-state sales tax has contributed (to a much smaller degree) to the centralization of online sales in the same way that a repeal of Section 230 would contribute to the centralization of online discourse. When was the last time you purchased anything from a truly independent store (meaning someone with their own independent site, not using Amazon, eBay, Etsy, Shopify, etc)?
      - adolph 6y ago
        I've bought from standalone independent web stores within the last couple weeks for RC and bike stuff. Aside from that the services you mention (exception of Amazon) are aggregations of independent stores (some actual and some as individuals) and Amazon has an amazing variety of sellers within it. It is very rational for indy stores to behave as a virtual collective within those services, very similar to a shopping district of similar products or storefronts in a mall. It is also very rational for large retailers like Amazon and WalMart to include them since they act as a long tail that can carry NOS or custom goods or final stock at higher prices. Additionally I would challenge the concept of the "truly independent store" in that all organizations represent a particular collection of services and dependencies. It's turtles all the way down. The point about sales tax is that many said the sky would fall down if sales taxes were imposed on Internet sales. Things did change, but not for the worse on the whole. As you note, it is hard to tell if seller web front consolidation had to do with tax treatment change or other reasons. In the larger picture, the change increased fairness in tax treatment, something that especially hurt local independent stores, and missing revenue from states. The protections of Section 230 don't protect you, your site or your users. They protect large companies who are free to silence you to support their agendas and cannot be sued for the disagreeable content they don't silence. Section 230 is as much a farce now as sales tax was then. Post-Sect 230, will those same large companies and organizations silence indy outlets they disagree with? Yes, and they already do even with Sect 230. Even in the absence of Section 230 any plaintiff will have a hard row to how against the their unlimited pockets but there will at least be a sporting chance to advance the most important issues of the day.

yet both 2020 candidates have spoken of an outright repeal of Section 230. Biden has said it should be "revoked immediately." 2021 is not going to be a good year for internet freedoms.

kadoban 6y ago

We had a free internet (as much as it ever was) before Facebook and Twitter though. Is section 230 really about internet freedoms? Walk me through your thinking if you would? In my mind the major effect of 230 is promoting centralized sites that really don't seem to have any good effect on society.

nabla9 6y ago
230 protects all intermediaries equally.
vharuck 6y ago
Section 230 was used to defend a public library from a lawsuit after a kid used its computers to look at porn. It protects hobby websites where members share knitting tips. It protects Hacker News. Repealing it would be disastrous.
mreome 6y ago
Section 230 protects all entities with user-generated content, that includes Facebook and Twitter as well as Uncle Frank's Model Train Forum. The repeal of 230 would essentially cement those centralized sites as the sole platforms however, as Uncle Frank doesn't have paid moderation teams or a legal department, and only makes $7.44 ad revenue each month. Frank won't be able to afford the legal costs if someone starts spamming it with libelous content and he's busy and doesn't get around to taking the posts down for a couple days.
- adolph 6y ago
  People said that about sales tax too. Somehow things sorted out afterwards and online sales survived.
  - mreome 6y ago
    A violation of sales tax law can only be addressed by the government. The protections provided by Section 230 are from everyone who might not like something about you, your site, or your users. It's the difference between the government having tanks and all your neighbors having tanks. Beyond that, I'm not saying online discourse won't survive, I'm saying that repealing Section 230 could lead to things being sorted out afterwards with the closure of the few remaining independent platforms and the cementing of the current centralized players who can afford to operate without the protections of Section 230. Arguably the complexity of inter-state sales tax has contributed (to a much smaller degree) to the centralization of online sales in the same way that a repeal of Section 230 would contribute to the centralization of online discourse. When was the last time you purchased anything from a truly independent store (meaning someone with their own independent site, not using Amazon, eBay, Etsy, Shopify, etc)?
    - adolph 6y ago
      I've bought from standalone independent web stores within the last couple weeks for RC and bike stuff. Aside from that the services you mention (exception of Amazon) are aggregations of independent stores (some actual and some as individuals) and Amazon has an amazing variety of sellers within it. It is very rational for indy stores to behave as a virtual collective within those services, very similar to a shopping district of similar products or storefronts in a mall. It is also very rational for large retailers like Amazon and WalMart to include them since they act as a long tail that can carry NOS or custom goods or final stock at higher prices. Additionally I would challenge the concept of the "truly independent store" in that all organizations represent a particular collection of services and dependencies. It's turtles all the way down. The point about sales tax is that many said the sky would fall down if sales taxes were imposed on Internet sales. Things did change, but not for the worse on the whole. As you note, it is hard to tell if seller web front consolidation had to do with tax treatment change or other reasons. In the larger picture, the change increased fairness in tax treatment, something that especially hurt local independent stores, and missing revenue from states. The protections of Section 230 don't protect you, your site or your users. They protect large companies who are free to silence you to support their agendas and cannot be sued for the disagreeable content they don't silence. Section 230 is as much a farce now as sales tax was then. Post-Sect 230, will those same large companies and organizations silence indy outlets they disagree with? Yes, and they already do even with Sect 230. Even in the absence of Section 230 any plaintiff will have a hard row to how against the their unlimited pockets but there will at least be a sporting chance to advance the most important issues of the day.