4 ms·

So, from the article: * “U.S. Capitol security needs a total overhaul. The physical breaching and desecration of our temple of democracy must never happen agai

So, from the article: * “U.S. Capitol security needs a total overhaul. The physical breaching and desecration of our temple of democracy must never happen again,” Senator Brian Schatz, a Democrat from Hawaii, said on Twitter. The thing is, he is right, but physical security improvements alone will not protect the Capitol from another insurrection.* So, how did the author make the leap that Senator Schatz meant physical security improvements? I think alot of Senators are thinking more along the lines of this article: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1?amp https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal... How do they ensure law enforcement are not complicit in the coup?

oh_sigh 6y ago
Is the Capitol really the "temple of democracy"? If anything, I would think the voting booth would be the temple of democracy and the Capitol would be the temple of Republicanism/Federalism?
- daniellarusso 6y ago
  By that logic, democracy is only practiced several times a decade (over a period of weeks)?
  - valvar 6y ago
    Isn't that exactly the case (besides in Switzerland)?
    - daniellarusso 6y ago
      I honestly don’t know, but I know it is not 24/7.
    - simonh 6y ago
      Democracy is a form of government, so any function of a democratic government is a democratic act. This is because that act was made legitimate and is held accountable via a democratic process. This isn’t sophistry, it’s a vitally important point because the legitimacy and accountability of government are the individual responsibility of every citizen. You and I are responsible for complying with government because we consent to be ruled due to our recognition of its legitimacy. Equally, we are responsible when we vote in a leader or representative. The guy in Starship Troopers is right, a vote is an act of force.
  - thatcat 6y ago
    That's the underlying truth - we don't have direct democracy, we have representative democracy.
- rtx 6y ago
  More like the cave in Alibaba and thieves.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  You got me thinking. Maybe democracy is just like a religion. We go in every Sunday ( if that ). Some on sufferance. Some recent converts full of awe. Some out of habit. We have disciples. We have priests. We have holy words and phrases that shall not be spoken.
  - thatcat 6y ago
    Lol, religion is the prototype for bureaucracy
  - Ancapistani 6y ago
    Don’t forget the holy relics (e.g. the flag). You’re not the first to make this comparison :)
salawat 6y ago
>“U.S. Capitol security needs a total overhaul. The physical breaching and desecration of our temple of democracy must never happen again,” Senator Brian Schatz, I would argue that those trying to secure the structure against invasion by the People are the ones desecrating the Temple. Like it or not what many hear call an insurrection, I call an unequivocal vote of no confidence by the governed and a call to action aimed at Representatives. Not to hide away behind locked barriers, but to listen, and take to heart the fact that people are pissed enough to mobilize in the first place. A call and voice message to the Rep is one thing. Repeated letters another. Putting in a physical appearance at an office yet another. Pushing your way into and disrupting Legislative business is an unmatched attention grabber, and to be frank, I'm not willing to deprive anyone willing to drive to D.C. of the opportunity to have an impact, nor am I willing to accept only the well heeled should be capable of regularly exercising the advantage of exploiting proximity to Federal Representatives. A person exercising Liberty, especially to the disdain of the majority, is the quintessential act of American patriotism and civil spirit. That foreign actors may have made use of the chaos is regrettable, but nevertheless, this is American government by design. It doesn't exist and rule by it's own right or ability to trounce all comers. It exists and rules because we all let it. Something I think a lot of people do not quite grasp. That Trump of all people is the one to bring all this out makes me want to vomit a bit, but it is what it is. So it goes.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  @dang, can we please ban coup advocacy on this forum?
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    Can we ban banning? What is so scary about words? And how did he even advocate for anything? It is scary how quickly we are ready to silence any dissent.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      What's scary is the five people who died in the event he's lionizing as "an unequivocal vote of no confidence by the governed and a call to action". A police officer was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-officer-who-died-after-capitol-riot-always-wanted-be-n1253516 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-officer-who-died...) - to call that a "quintessential act of American patriotism" is open advocacy for violence, and I don't think I can ethically participate in a forum which permits such a terrible thing.
mistermann 6y ago
> How do they ensure law enforcement are not complicit in the coup? "Complicit in the coup" makes it sound like they're on the side of the Trump morons. This is certainly possible, but does having comically understaffed security when it was extremely well known that there was going to be a huge crowd serve Donald Trump, or someone else? Like, when you turn on the news, or read forums, do you get a feeling that this is playing out in favour of Trump and his supporters? I am going to be paying close attention to how this story is spun over the next few weeks, including the type of language they use, and we'll see if an investigation that can be taken seriously is ever performed. And going forward, how often this event is used as "proof" of how dangerous "right wing extremists" (or populists) are.

oh_sigh 6y ago

Is the Capitol really the "temple of democracy"? If anything, I would think the voting booth would be the temple of democracy and the Capitol would be the temple of Republicanism/Federalism?

daniellarusso 6y ago
By that logic, democracy is only practiced several times a decade (over a period of weeks)?
- valvar 6y ago
  Isn't that exactly the case (besides in Switzerland)?
  - daniellarusso 6y ago
    I honestly don’t know, but I know it is not 24/7.
  - simonh 6y ago
    Democracy is a form of government, so any function of a democratic government is a democratic act. This is because that act was made legitimate and is held accountable via a democratic process. This isn’t sophistry, it’s a vitally important point because the legitimacy and accountability of government are the individual responsibility of every citizen. You and I are responsible for complying with government because we consent to be ruled due to our recognition of its legitimacy. Equally, we are responsible when we vote in a leader or representative. The guy in Starship Troopers is right, a vote is an act of force.
- thatcat 6y ago
  That's the underlying truth - we don't have direct democracy, we have representative democracy.
rtx 6y ago
More like the cave in Alibaba and thieves.
A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
You got me thinking. Maybe democracy is just like a religion. We go in every Sunday ( if that ). Some on sufferance. Some recent converts full of awe. Some out of habit. We have disciples. We have priests. We have holy words and phrases that shall not be spoken.
- thatcat 6y ago
  Lol, religion is the prototype for bureaucracy
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  Don’t forget the holy relics (e.g. the flag). You’re not the first to make this comparison :)

salawat 6y ago

>“U.S. Capitol security needs a total overhaul. The physical breaching and desecration of our temple of democracy must never happen again,” Senator Brian Schatz, I would argue that those trying to secure the structure against invasion by the People are the ones desecrating the Temple. Like it or not what many hear call an insurrection, I call an unequivocal vote of no confidence by the governed and a call to action aimed at Representatives. Not to hide away behind locked barriers, but to listen, and take to heart the fact that people are pissed enough to mobilize in the first place. A call and voice message to the Rep is one thing. Repeated letters another. Putting in a physical appearance at an office yet another. Pushing your way into and disrupting Legislative business is an unmatched attention grabber, and to be frank, I'm not willing to deprive anyone willing to drive to D.C. of the opportunity to have an impact, nor am I willing to accept only the well heeled should be capable of regularly exercising the advantage of exploiting proximity to Federal Representatives. A person exercising Liberty, especially to the disdain of the majority, is the quintessential act of American patriotism and civil spirit. That foreign actors may have made use of the chaos is regrettable, but nevertheless, this is American government by design. It doesn't exist and rule by it's own right or ability to trounce all comers. It exists and rules because we all let it. Something I think a lot of people do not quite grasp. That Trump of all people is the one to bring all this out makes me want to vomit a bit, but it is what it is. So it goes.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
@dang, can we please ban coup advocacy on this forum?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  Can we ban banning? What is so scary about words? And how did he even advocate for anything? It is scary how quickly we are ready to silence any dissent.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    What's scary is the five people who died in the event he's lionizing as "an unequivocal vote of no confidence by the governed and a call to action". A police officer was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-officer-who-died-after-capitol-riot-always-wanted-be-n1253516 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-officer-who-died...) - to call that a "quintessential act of American patriotism" is open advocacy for violence, and I don't think I can ethically participate in a forum which permits such a terrible thing.

mistermann 6y ago

> How do they ensure law enforcement are not complicit in the coup? "Complicit in the coup" makes it sound like they're on the side of the Trump morons. This is certainly possible, but does having comically understaffed security when it was extremely well known that there was going to be a huge crowd serve Donald Trump, or someone else? Like, when you turn on the news, or read forums, do you get a feeling that this is playing out in favour of Trump and his supporters? I am going to be paying close attention to how this story is spun over the next few weeks, including the type of language they use, and we'll see if an investigation that can be taken seriously is ever performed. And going forward, how often this event is used as "proof" of how dangerous "right wing extremists" (or populists) are.