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I won't bother with your bizarre argument, but you are flagrantly taking Harris' words out of context. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/13

I won't bother with your bizarre argument, but you are flagrantly taking Harris' words out of context. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/13/fact-check-democrats-have-condemned-violence-linked-protests/3317862001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/13/fac...

sillycon-valley 6y ago
Welcome to politics, DT's words are constantly taken out of context and used to enflame the masses. That's why this censorship ordeal is scary. Both sides deserve to be heard so people can listen, hear both sides, sift through the bullshit and decide for themselves.
zaroth 6y ago
I don’t know if you realize you’re making exactly my point. This “fact check” is the kind of laughable gaslighting that got us here. The YouTube videos speak for themselves. The death toll speaks for itself. > Colbert: ”I know there are protests still happening in major cities across the United States, I'm just not seeing the reporting on it that I had for the first few weeks," The “protests” were violet mobs which destroyed property and killed people. The media made up a narrative of “fiery but mostly peaceful protest” while buildings (and people’s livelihoods) literally burned in the background. $2 billion dollars of damage. > This isn’t going to stop. Police shot in the head, doused with gasoline, government buildings burned into the ground. > This is a movement I’m telling you. City capitol buildings invaded. Throngs calling for the removal of the elected leader of Seattle. City blocks occupied for days by an armed insurgent force. > they're not going to let up — and they should not. And we should not," she concluded. Ted Wheeler seems to be finally coming around to this, god knows how it took him so long; > “My good-faith efforts at de-escalation have been met with ongoing violence and even scorn from radical Antifa and anarchists,” Wheeler said in a New Year’s Day press conference. “In response, it will be necessary to use additional tools and to push the limits of the tools we already have to bring the criminal destruction and violence to an end.” Like I’ve been saying for the last two days, you can either say people like Kamala are inciting violent protest that was actively ongoing when they made these statements, and you can hold Trump to the same standard yesterday. Or you can let Kamala off the hook, but then you let Trump off at the same time. You can’t hold Trump to one standard and Kamala to another. You can’t call yesterday an insurrection and last year a summer of love.
- idiot900 6y ago
  Harris was warning that those terrible riots would continue, not encouraging them. The meaning is quite clear, but I don't think I can convince you of that. Quote from Harris: “It’s no wonder people are taking to the streets and I support them. We must always defend peaceful protest and peaceful protestors. We should not confuse them with those looting and committing acts of violence, including the shooter who was arrested for murder. And make no mistake, we will not let these vigilantes and extremists derail the path to justice.” We agree the BLM riots were bad. The Seattle insurrection especially. But Kamala Harris did not encourage them. Trump did encourage an insurrection against our government. There is a massive difference.
  - zaroth 6y ago
    I know that’s what you see. You see that because you believe that and spoken language is ambiguous. Trump followed up with an almost identical statement. You understand what he said differently because you believe different things about Trump. It’s OK. It’s politics. In the end all I want is people to be consistent in how they describe violent mobs. Personally I don’t think these violent mobs in the summer or yesterday are terrorists. I think they are simply violent mobs that were allowed to get out of control through lack of policing and bad politics. I blame both sides. The meta problem I have is the rapid political capitalization by Democrats (including Harris) and the media following one violent mob after granting persistent cover and gaslighting readers for months over the significantly worse BLM/antifa mobs going off all summer.
    - idiot900 6y ago
      > You see that because you believe that and spoken language is ambiguous. By this reasoning there is no such thing as a meaningful statement in a human language. Anyway. I think we'll agree to disagree. Pleasure chatting with you, and stay safe.
      - zaroth 6y ago
        Ambiguous doesn’t mean meaningless. Harris says verbatim that the protests are not going to let up, and should not. Even though they are violent, and people have died. You chose to interpret that as her saying that they would not stop (a warning) but not an endorsement. I see it clearly as a warning and an endorsement. Would not and should not. But I recognize that Trump talks and suddenly maybe I’m in your shoes and you’re in mine. Maybe I think the transcript irrefutably supports my position, but it’s Ok if you disagree. I don’t think either of us are fascists because of it. The result isn’t words have no meaning, it’s whether you will respect people enough to let them answer you and clarify and believe them when they do. So Trump says “there were fine people” and people say, wait did he just complement literal nazis, and you check the transcript and you realize, oh, “and I’m not talking about the nazis, they should be condemned totally”. But the media doesn’t allow Trump to say “and I’m not talking about the nazis”. They cover their ears at that point and say, “la la la, Trump just said nazis are fine people!” And that’s what’s wrong with this picture. They did it in Charlottesville, they did it to cover for horrible rioting by BLM/Antifa, and they are doing it today.

sillycon-valley 6y ago

Welcome to politics, DT's words are constantly taken out of context and used to enflame the masses. That's why this censorship ordeal is scary. Both sides deserve to be heard so people can listen, hear both sides, sift through the bullshit and decide for themselves.

zaroth 6y ago

I don’t know if you realize you’re making exactly my point. This “fact check” is the kind of laughable gaslighting that got us here. The YouTube videos speak for themselves. The death toll speaks for itself. > Colbert: ”I know there are protests still happening in major cities across the United States, I'm just not seeing the reporting on it that I had for the first few weeks," The “protests” were violet mobs which destroyed property and killed people. The media made up a narrative of “fiery but mostly peaceful protest” while buildings (and people’s livelihoods) literally burned in the background. $2 billion dollars of damage. > This isn’t going to stop. Police shot in the head, doused with gasoline, government buildings burned into the ground. > This is a movement I’m telling you. City capitol buildings invaded. Throngs calling for the removal of the elected leader of Seattle. City blocks occupied for days by an armed insurgent force. > they're not going to let up — and they should not. And we should not," she concluded. Ted Wheeler seems to be finally coming around to this, god knows how it took him so long; > “My good-faith efforts at de-escalation have been met with ongoing violence and even scorn from radical Antifa and anarchists,” Wheeler said in a New Year’s Day press conference. “In response, it will be necessary to use additional tools and to push the limits of the tools we already have to bring the criminal destruction and violence to an end.” Like I’ve been saying for the last two days, you can either say people like Kamala are inciting violent protest that was actively ongoing when they made these statements, and you can hold Trump to the same standard yesterday. Or you can let Kamala off the hook, but then you let Trump off at the same time. You can’t hold Trump to one standard and Kamala to another. You can’t call yesterday an insurrection and last year a summer of love.

idiot900 6y ago
Harris was warning that those terrible riots would continue, not encouraging them. The meaning is quite clear, but I don't think I can convince you of that. Quote from Harris: “It’s no wonder people are taking to the streets and I support them. We must always defend peaceful protest and peaceful protestors. We should not confuse them with those looting and committing acts of violence, including the shooter who was arrested for murder. And make no mistake, we will not let these vigilantes and extremists derail the path to justice.” We agree the BLM riots were bad. The Seattle insurrection especially. But Kamala Harris did not encourage them. Trump did encourage an insurrection against our government. There is a massive difference.
- zaroth 6y ago
  I know that’s what you see. You see that because you believe that and spoken language is ambiguous. Trump followed up with an almost identical statement. You understand what he said differently because you believe different things about Trump. It’s OK. It’s politics. In the end all I want is people to be consistent in how they describe violent mobs. Personally I don’t think these violent mobs in the summer or yesterday are terrorists. I think they are simply violent mobs that were allowed to get out of control through lack of policing and bad politics. I blame both sides. The meta problem I have is the rapid political capitalization by Democrats (including Harris) and the media following one violent mob after granting persistent cover and gaslighting readers for months over the significantly worse BLM/antifa mobs going off all summer.
  - idiot900 6y ago
    > You see that because you believe that and spoken language is ambiguous. By this reasoning there is no such thing as a meaningful statement in a human language. Anyway. I think we'll agree to disagree. Pleasure chatting with you, and stay safe.
    - zaroth 6y ago
      Ambiguous doesn’t mean meaningless. Harris says verbatim that the protests are not going to let up, and should not. Even though they are violent, and people have died. You chose to interpret that as her saying that they would not stop (a warning) but not an endorsement. I see it clearly as a warning and an endorsement. Would not and should not. But I recognize that Trump talks and suddenly maybe I’m in your shoes and you’re in mine. Maybe I think the transcript irrefutably supports my position, but it’s Ok if you disagree. I don’t think either of us are fascists because of it. The result isn’t words have no meaning, it’s whether you will respect people enough to let them answer you and clarify and believe them when they do. So Trump says “there were fine people” and people say, wait did he just complement literal nazis, and you check the transcript and you realize, oh, “and I’m not talking about the nazis, they should be condemned totally”. But the media doesn’t allow Trump to say “and I’m not talking about the nazis”. They cover their ears at that point and say, “la la la, Trump just said nazis are fine people!” And that’s what’s wrong with this picture. They did it in Charlottesville, they did it to cover for horrible rioting by BLM/Antifa, and they are doing it today.