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So it appears that as of now, general warrants are disallowed in the UK and (in practice) permitted in the US. America's founding fathers are spinning in their

So it appears that as of now, general warrants are disallowed in the UK and (in practice) permitted in the US. America's founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

DamnYuppie 6y ago
The foundering fathers did their part. We as the inheritors have failed miserably in holding onto the freedoms that were gifted to us.
- willcipriano 6y ago
  Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The question Whether one generation of men has a right to bind another, seems never to have been started either on this or our side of the water… (But) between society and society, or generation and generation there is no municipal obligation, no umpire but the law of nature. We seem not to have perceived that, by the law of nature, one generation is to another as one independant nation to another… On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation… Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19. years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right."
  - PoachedSausage 6y ago
    That might have been true in Jefferson's day, lifespans were shorter. Now most western democracies are effectively gerontocracies, the young are bound to the wishes of the old. See Brexit.
    - function_seven 6y ago
      Lifespans weren't that much shorter in his day (provided you made it to 5 years old). He's not describing something that is "true" or not, but rather what ought to be. I think it's just as relevant today as when he wrote that.
      - PoachedSausage 6y ago
        I agree that it ought to be that way, however those with power tend to want to hang on to it. How do you solve it? The US has a term limit for the President, but you can stay in Congress/Senate/Parliament for life if re-elected.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - Melting_Harps 6y ago
        > but you can stay in Congress/Senate/Parliament for life if re-elected. It gets even worse when you look at the actual approval ratings and re-election numbers, this a system created to serve career politicians and nothing more. When you see the approval rating is in the lows 30s, abut approval rates are in the 90s, something is definitely wrong as in need of a massive correction. Andrew Yang found this out the hard way and his lobbying efforts in Washington to help get the 2nd stimulus checks approved can be pretty much summed up as congress was oblivious that the People needed further financial assistance. That is how far detached they are from reality, I think this recent stunt pulled in the capital by blind ideologues served as a warning to how fast things can devolve. The US experiment showed great promise and had amazing prospects for a desirable model that Human Civilization could aspire and achieve, but much like its predecessor (Rome) it too decayed into oblivion due to the inherit and predictable fact that power corrupts. Human's cannot to be trusted with such power and to believe otherwise is to fall back on to this absurd notion of a chiefton caste system, that really on serves the upper tier of Society and creates a poorly incentivized system that ensures by the time you're even a possible candidate you're already so marred by the corruption you're just as bad as you what you wanted to change. I really do want things to get better, not just in the US, but on the entire Earth as we have such a limited window of opportunity to live up to our potential as Species; but so long as we abide by these whimsical make-believe popularity contests--with people we frankly couldn't or wouldn't leave our pets under even the most dire circumstance--who then in turn act as the arbiters of everything aspect in Life that matters and use the pubic purse for personal largess we will always succumb to the same result. Software engineers at FAANG really should be working on a protocol of governance that automates all the decision making congress could and would do with it's priority on rolling out a proper beta in the next 5 years, that could actually be suitable challenge for them to redeem their squandering talents and skills instead building this horrible panopitcon. Remember, those rabid Q-anon/conspiracy guys are just as much your fault as they are Trumps/Fox news when you look at what most of you people do everyday. And it isn't until they do something as stupid as they did this week that it becomes obvious to those who did it. But, hey: it's just money, right?
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    The other side of this is Chesterton's Fence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_fence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_... If your forefathers were willing to die for something, better fully understand why before you try to get rid of it.
    - willcipriano 6y ago
      From a Chesterton's Fence perspective think about the ability of the people to hold a amendatory convention. If you don't know, a amendatory convention can be achieved by having two thirds of the state legislatures vote for one. If that happens then you must get a two thirds majority of states to agree on the proposal presented and it becomes a constitutional amendment. Entirely side stepping the federal government. This power hasn't been used in a very long time, and from my readings of Washington and Jefferson they intended us to use it. Perhaps this is a corollary to Chesterton's Fence, call it Chesterton's Button rephrased less elegantly than he or you put it: "If your forefathers were willing to die to give you the ability to do something, you should question if that ability has not used in a very long time."
      - jkaplowitz 6y ago
        > If you don't know, a amendatory convention can be achieved by having two thirds of the state legislatures vote for one. If that happens then you must get a two thirds majority of states to agree on the proposal presented and it becomes a constitutional amendment. The required majority to approve the output of the convention is 3/4 of the states, not the same 2/3 as to call the convention in the first place. > Entirely side stepping the federal government. The entity that is required to call the convention once 2/3 of the states have requested it is the federal Congress, so they are not entirely side stepped. But, it is true that they are not allowed to refuse to call the convention in this situation. There is nothing in the Constitution, any federal statute, or any court ruling that addresses what happens if Congress doess not do so. > This power hasn't been used in a very long time It's never been used successfully, although it's been attempted at least once by every state except Hawaii. (Some attempts were indirectly successful in achieving their goal, by spurring Congress to propose the desired amendments.)
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- willmw101 6y ago
  It's almost as if becoming a superpower corrupts nations

So it appears that as of now, general warrants are disallowed in the UK and (in practice) permitted in the US. America's founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

DamnYuppie 6y ago

The foundering fathers did their part. We as the inheritors have failed miserably in holding onto the freedoms that were gifted to us.

willcipriano 6y ago
Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The question Whether one generation of men has a right to bind another, seems never to have been started either on this or our side of the water… (But) between society and society, or generation and generation there is no municipal obligation, no umpire but the law of nature. We seem not to have perceived that, by the law of nature, one generation is to another as one independant nation to another… On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation… Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19. years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right."
- PoachedSausage 6y ago
  That might have been true in Jefferson's day, lifespans were shorter. Now most western democracies are effectively gerontocracies, the young are bound to the wishes of the old. See Brexit.
  - function_seven 6y ago
    Lifespans weren't that much shorter in his day (provided you made it to 5 years old). He's not describing something that is "true" or not, but rather what ought to be. I think it's just as relevant today as when he wrote that.
    - PoachedSausage 6y ago
      I agree that it ought to be that way, however those with power tend to want to hang on to it. How do you solve it? The US has a term limit for the President, but you can stay in Congress/Senate/Parliament for life if re-elected.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > but you can stay in Congress/Senate/Parliament for life if re-elected. It gets even worse when you look at the actual approval ratings and re-election numbers, this a system created to serve career politicians and nothing more. When you see the approval rating is in the lows 30s, abut approval rates are in the 90s, something is definitely wrong as in need of a massive correction. Andrew Yang found this out the hard way and his lobbying efforts in Washington to help get the 2nd stimulus checks approved can be pretty much summed up as congress was oblivious that the People needed further financial assistance. That is how far detached they are from reality, I think this recent stunt pulled in the capital by blind ideologues served as a warning to how fast things can devolve. The US experiment showed great promise and had amazing prospects for a desirable model that Human Civilization could aspire and achieve, but much like its predecessor (Rome) it too decayed into oblivion due to the inherit and predictable fact that power corrupts. Human's cannot to be trusted with such power and to believe otherwise is to fall back on to this absurd notion of a chiefton caste system, that really on serves the upper tier of Society and creates a poorly incentivized system that ensures by the time you're even a possible candidate you're already so marred by the corruption you're just as bad as you what you wanted to change. I really do want things to get better, not just in the US, but on the entire Earth as we have such a limited window of opportunity to live up to our potential as Species; but so long as we abide by these whimsical make-believe popularity contests--with people we frankly couldn't or wouldn't leave our pets under even the most dire circumstance--who then in turn act as the arbiters of everything aspect in Life that matters and use the pubic purse for personal largess we will always succumb to the same result. Software engineers at FAANG really should be working on a protocol of governance that automates all the decision making congress could and would do with it's priority on rolling out a proper beta in the next 5 years, that could actually be suitable challenge for them to redeem their squandering talents and skills instead building this horrible panopitcon. Remember, those rabid Q-anon/conspiracy guys are just as much your fault as they are Trumps/Fox news when you look at what most of you people do everyday. And it isn't until they do something as stupid as they did this week that it becomes obvious to those who did it. But, hey: it's just money, right?
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  The other side of this is Chesterton's Fence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_fence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_... If your forefathers were willing to die for something, better fully understand why before you try to get rid of it.
  - willcipriano 6y ago
    From a Chesterton's Fence perspective think about the ability of the people to hold a amendatory convention. If you don't know, a amendatory convention can be achieved by having two thirds of the state legislatures vote for one. If that happens then you must get a two thirds majority of states to agree on the proposal presented and it becomes a constitutional amendment. Entirely side stepping the federal government. This power hasn't been used in a very long time, and from my readings of Washington and Jefferson they intended us to use it. Perhaps this is a corollary to Chesterton's Fence, call it Chesterton's Button rephrased less elegantly than he or you put it: "If your forefathers were willing to die to give you the ability to do something, you should question if that ability has not used in a very long time."
    - jkaplowitz 6y ago
      > If you don't know, a amendatory convention can be achieved by having two thirds of the state legislatures vote for one. If that happens then you must get a two thirds majority of states to agree on the proposal presented and it becomes a constitutional amendment. The required majority to approve the output of the convention is 3/4 of the states, not the same 2/3 as to call the convention in the first place. > Entirely side stepping the federal government. The entity that is required to call the convention once 2/3 of the states have requested it is the federal Congress, so they are not entirely side stepped. But, it is true that they are not allowed to refuse to call the convention in this situation. There is nothing in the Constitution, any federal statute, or any court ruling that addresses what happens if Congress doess not do so. > This power hasn't been used in a very long time It's never been used successfully, although it's been attempted at least once by every state except Hawaii. (Some attempts were indirectly successful in achieving their goal, by spurring Congress to propose the desired amendments.)
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willmw101 6y ago
It's almost as if becoming a superpower corrupts nations