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So long as iMessage only runs on Apple devices, it's not going to be "beating" anything. There are several posts here pointing out that Apple's rating of it's

So long as iMessage only runs on Apple devices, it's not going to be "beating" anything. There are several posts here pointing out that Apple's rating of it's own products credentials is a bit questionable. I don't really see how this is much different to all those "feature comparisons" where the 'features' are carefully chosen to make the competing products look as bad as possible.

wayneftw 6y ago
The other day I noticed that you can't even leave a review for an Apple app on their app store. I don't think other apps can even disable reviews.
- my123 6y ago
  Apple apps not bundled as a part of the operating system have reviews. Think that the App Store for OS bundled apps is just there for cosmetic reasons. You cannot actually update those apps on their own without an OS update either.
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    Bundled or not is a completely arbitrary attribute defined by Apple to avoid competing. I can remove the Mail app if I want, but I can't leave a review to say why it sucks. That's not fair to every other email app out there. It's typical Apple behavior. Same for Apple Music and Maps which have real competitors that Apple would hate to lose to. The only Apple apps you can review are toys like Garageband.
    - dwaite 6y ago
      > I can remove the Mail app if I want You can hide the Mail app. The interface to redisplay it is the App Store. Removing the mail app would require installing a different OS build.
      - wayneftw 6y ago
        No, you can remove it just like any other iOS app. Here's the menu to do so on my iPhone 8 [0]. It's the same menu item that you would use to remove Spotify or Google Maps. [0] https://m.imgur.com/a/lHaFCYo https://m.imgur.com/a/lHaFCYo
ubermonkey 6y ago
I suspect Apple would tell you that iMessage is part of the whole gestalt of iOS. "If you really like it, maybe you should switch to iOS!" When conversations about some X feature of iOS happen, there's always a few people who can't seem to grasp this, and wonder why Apple doesn't port this or that to Android. This confuses me. Apple's in the business of selling Apple hardware. To sell software that runs widely elsewhere is to change their business model entirely, and given how successful they've been, that doesn't seem like a great move.
- jonp888 6y ago
  I have no expectation that Apple will make iMessage available on non-Apple devices. My point is that in the context of the current debate about WhatApp's new T&Cs and the question "what can I use instead of WhatsApp that won't infringe my privacy so much", comparing the two doesn't make sense because for the majority of people iMessage isn't even in the list of possible alternatives.
  - geocar 6y ago
    > comparing the two doesn't make sense because for the majority of people iMessage isn't even in the list of possible alternatives. However, iMessage is absolutely in the list of possible alternatives for Apple customers, and they matter even if you're not one. I know more than one person who switched to iPhone, at least in-part, because of social pressure about the green bubbles. That's probably a lot easier than a lot of other choices for a lot of people can make. > I have no expectation that Apple will make iMessage available on non-Apple devices. I think you should be more suspicious of where you got the idea that Apple should be the one to make iMessage available on non-Apple devices, because clearly the only one who benefits from Apple not being on Android devices is Google. I mean, if I can get a license to send/receive iMessages on non-Apple kit, then surely Google can, ffs.
    - benhurmarcel 6y ago
      > iMessage is absolutely in the list of possible alternatives for Apple customers I'm an Apple customer, and iMessage isn't in the list of alternatives I can propose to my contacts. Because most of them aren't Apple customers. So I can't use it.
mabbo 6y ago
But that's the point. A walled garden, a locked ecosystem. You're either in or you're out. And if your friends are all in and you aren't, you'll never get to hear from them again. How's that for social pressure to buy an iPhone? I'm not saying what Apple's done isn't a good thing. But I am saying that maybe they didn't do it for good reasons.
- mainstreemm 6y ago
  I've always owned an Android and I've heard about the, what is it, blue bubble prejudice, or something? I'd just like to say that if anyone has ever avoided putting me in a group chat or becoming my friend because I had an Android instead of an iPhone: GOOD. What a moron that person must be. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I have plenty of people in my life who don't have such stupid or petty requirements, and many of them have iPhones. If that's serving as a filter for me in the kinds of friends I get, that's a filter I think I actually appreciate.
- dagmx 6y ago
  Why won't your hear from them again? Messages aggregates sms and iMessage. They'll fall back to sms without having to do anything. At most, you just need to deactivate your iMessage when switching to Android. To the users there's no workflow difference
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    While I've never done this myself, there are people who avoid adding non-Apple users to group messages Mainly because the entire chat ends up being downgraded from iMessage to plain SMS, even if only a single non-Apple device joins
    - xienze 6y ago
      > Mainly because the entire chat ends up being downgraded from iMessage to plain SMS, even if only a single non-Apple device joins Yep. Want to share a video in your group chat that includes a non-Apple user? Everybody gets an MMS that has a postage stamped-size, low framerate video.
jojobas 6y ago
So long as <messenger service> is dependent on a single entity running the servers it's fundamentally deficient.
- mrlala 6y ago
  That's a bs argument. The FIRST problem is it ONLY running on one ecosystem. The SECOND problem is that it's still dependent on X (which is ALWAYS going to be a problem unless you are making a blockchain messaging service) Stop ignoring the first one.
  - jojobas 6y ago
    The first one is only one bad consequence of the second. Nobody owns email, Jabber or Matrix and that's how it should be.

wayneftw 6y ago

The other day I noticed that you can't even leave a review for an Apple app on their app store. I don't think other apps can even disable reviews.

my123 6y ago
Apple apps not bundled as a part of the operating system have reviews. Think that the App Store for OS bundled apps is just there for cosmetic reasons. You cannot actually update those apps on their own without an OS update either.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  Bundled or not is a completely arbitrary attribute defined by Apple to avoid competing. I can remove the Mail app if I want, but I can't leave a review to say why it sucks. That's not fair to every other email app out there. It's typical Apple behavior. Same for Apple Music and Maps which have real competitors that Apple would hate to lose to. The only Apple apps you can review are toys like Garageband.
  - dwaite 6y ago
    > I can remove the Mail app if I want You can hide the Mail app. The interface to redisplay it is the App Store. Removing the mail app would require installing a different OS build.
    - wayneftw 6y ago
      No, you can remove it just like any other iOS app. Here's the menu to do so on my iPhone 8 [0]. It's the same menu item that you would use to remove Spotify or Google Maps. [0] https://m.imgur.com/a/lHaFCYo https://m.imgur.com/a/lHaFCYo

ubermonkey 6y ago

I suspect Apple would tell you that iMessage is part of the whole gestalt of iOS. "If you really like it, maybe you should switch to iOS!" When conversations about some X feature of iOS happen, there's always a few people who can't seem to grasp this, and wonder why Apple doesn't port this or that to Android. This confuses me. Apple's in the business of selling Apple hardware. To sell software that runs widely elsewhere is to change their business model entirely, and given how successful they've been, that doesn't seem like a great move.

jonp888 6y ago
I have no expectation that Apple will make iMessage available on non-Apple devices. My point is that in the context of the current debate about WhatApp's new T&Cs and the question "what can I use instead of WhatsApp that won't infringe my privacy so much", comparing the two doesn't make sense because for the majority of people iMessage isn't even in the list of possible alternatives.
- geocar 6y ago
  > comparing the two doesn't make sense because for the majority of people iMessage isn't even in the list of possible alternatives. However, iMessage is absolutely in the list of possible alternatives for Apple customers, and they matter even if you're not one. I know more than one person who switched to iPhone, at least in-part, because of social pressure about the green bubbles. That's probably a lot easier than a lot of other choices for a lot of people can make. > I have no expectation that Apple will make iMessage available on non-Apple devices. I think you should be more suspicious of where you got the idea that Apple should be the one to make iMessage available on non-Apple devices, because clearly the only one who benefits from Apple not being on Android devices is Google. I mean, if I can get a license to send/receive iMessages on non-Apple kit, then surely Google can, ffs.
  - benhurmarcel 6y ago
    > iMessage is absolutely in the list of possible alternatives for Apple customers I'm an Apple customer, and iMessage isn't in the list of alternatives I can propose to my contacts. Because most of them aren't Apple customers. So I can't use it.

mabbo 6y ago

But that's the point. A walled garden, a locked ecosystem. You're either in or you're out. And if your friends are all in and you aren't, you'll never get to hear from them again. How's that for social pressure to buy an iPhone? I'm not saying what Apple's done isn't a good thing. But I am saying that maybe they didn't do it for good reasons.

mainstreemm 6y ago
I've always owned an Android and I've heard about the, what is it, blue bubble prejudice, or something? I'd just like to say that if anyone has ever avoided putting me in a group chat or becoming my friend because I had an Android instead of an iPhone: GOOD. What a moron that person must be. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I have plenty of people in my life who don't have such stupid or petty requirements, and many of them have iPhones. If that's serving as a filter for me in the kinds of friends I get, that's a filter I think I actually appreciate.
dagmx 6y ago
Why won't your hear from them again? Messages aggregates sms and iMessage. They'll fall back to sms without having to do anything. At most, you just need to deactivate your iMessage when switching to Android. To the users there's no workflow difference
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  While I've never done this myself, there are people who avoid adding non-Apple users to group messages Mainly because the entire chat ends up being downgraded from iMessage to plain SMS, even if only a single non-Apple device joins
  - xienze 6y ago
    > Mainly because the entire chat ends up being downgraded from iMessage to plain SMS, even if only a single non-Apple device joins Yep. Want to share a video in your group chat that includes a non-Apple user? Everybody gets an MMS that has a postage stamped-size, low framerate video.

jojobas 6y ago

So long as <messenger service> is dependent on a single entity running the servers it's fundamentally deficient.

mrlala 6y ago
That's a bs argument. The FIRST problem is it ONLY running on one ecosystem. The SECOND problem is that it's still dependent on X (which is ALWAYS going to be a problem unless you are making a blockchain messaging service) Stop ignoring the first one.
- jojobas 6y ago
  The first one is only one bad consequence of the second. Nobody owns email, Jabber or Matrix and that's how it should be.