4 ms·

Given that it’s been a few years of no net neutrality... what terrible things have happened? What bad things are happening today that will be stopped or fixed w

Given that it’s been a few years of no net neutrality... what terrible things have happened? What bad things are happening today that will be stopped or fixed with new net neutrality laws? As a casual internet user I haven’t really noticed anything one way or another?

gigatexal 6y ago
See the post just above you.
akersten 6y ago
Quite a few ISP/media conglomerate monopolies like AT&T and T-Mobile are zero-rating their own streaming services' traffic, while still counting bytes for Netflix against a pathetic mobile data cap. Anti-competitive and unfair, but it's completely permissible in a world without net neutrality.
- nostromo 6y ago
  Huh? T-Mobile has no streaming content service. They also give Netflix away for free with many of their plans.
  - unityByFreedom 6y ago
    You get Netflix for free with T-Mobile because they have a business arrangement. It's anti-competitive to the next Netflix.
- SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
  Wasn’t the NN claim you would be charged more for services? As I understand it, not charging you for a specific service would still be allowed under NN.
metamet 6y ago
Comcast, for example, could ban Zoom, WhatsApp, Skype, etc. if they thought it would be financially beneficial for them to do so. They could charge more for VOIP, or gatekeep certain traffic unless you pay more. And many people don't have the luxury of multiple ISPs in their area. Simply because these corporations haven’t abused their power yet doesn't mean they wont, considering it's perfectly legal for them to do so.
- nickysielicki 6y ago
  As someone who is against NN and has been against it for years, I’m happy to see that NN activists still have no better argument to make than dreaming up these fictional scenarios, because the more you exaggerate the more people start to question it. The fact of the matter is that none of your doomsday scenarios have happened. The fact of the matter is that last mile internet has become more competitive in the past 4 years. The fact of the matter is that most economists are against NN, and those that are for it are only for it because they believe that last mile internet access is monopolistic — something that is increasingly harder to argue. Make a real argument. How is it more efficient to get the government involved? Why does the government have the right to claim authority over privately owned infrastructure? Why now, and if NN is so essential, why did the internet have so little trouble developing over the past 2 decades? No, I’m sorry. I don’t think we should force ISPs to follow rules that would require dramatic overbuilding of their infrastructure. I think we should leave the internet alone.
  - SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
    > How is it more efficient to get the government involved? Why does the government have the right to claim authority over privately owned infrastructure? Why now, and if NN is so essential, why did the internet have so little trouble developing over the past 2 decades? I can’t answer these. I’d like to see someone attempt it, because I’ve been lambasted on this site for saying a version of what you’ve very cleanly stated. It’s like everyone has forgotten the cute “save the internet” banners on the bug sites that loaded like 56k dialup progressive pngs did. No, that hasn’t happened at all. If I was to make a piss poor attempt at your question, I would probably say that over the last two decades the scale of services didn’t increase so sharply, so what worked then might not work now... but it’s a halfhearted argument.
jbombadil 6y ago
A lack of net neutrality can be exploited without you (as a casual internet user) knowing it. It could be AT&T going to Netflix and telling them "Give me money or Netflix will be slower than Hulu". Netflix would pay, and you wouldn't know the difference. Also, if you want a less hypothetical scenario: in 2012 and 2013, AT&T blocked FaceTime.
- erezyehuda 6y ago
  If I recall correctly, Netflix paying to not have their data rates throttled was a real occurrence.
  - baskire 6y ago
    I don’t believe that was the case. Instead it was Netflix moving infra to be directly in the ISP data center. In the past they asked ISPs to upgrade their peering with their connectivity providers for free. With said ISPs saying no (which is their right).
  - fat_pikachu 6y ago
    You don't recall correctly. Netflix and Verizon got into a peering dispute, but that's hardly throttling.
judge2020 6y ago
AT&T’s mobile service currently doesn’t incur bandwidth for streaming HBO services (Max, Go, etc). When customers are choosing a streaming service, chances are they’ll gravitate to HBO instead of a competitor if they expect to be streaming heavily while on-the-go and on a shared data plan (or even an unlimited data plan - HBO streams won’t contribute to the ~22GB/mo of ‘unlimited speed’ data you get on the unlimited plan that isn’t throttled).
- jjcon 6y ago
  T-Mobile was doing stuff like this before the fcc adopted their current policy so I imagine stuff like that is here to stay regardless of net neutrality rules
unityByFreedom 6y ago
Zero-rating has gone from "only" happening on some mobile networks to happening in broadband [1]. Combined with data caps, it means you're paying more for some websites than others. XFinity gifts you free NBC while you need to pay for overages for viewing Netflix. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/j575gg/broadband-zero-rating-actually-costs-customers-more-study-finds https://www.vice.com/en/article/j575gg/broadband-zero-rating...
TameAntelope 6y ago
I believe many ISPs are current trying to avoid abusing their position in an obvious way, both because they anticipated this would eventually happen and a more obvious abuse would have triggered it even more quickly.

gigatexal 6y ago

See the post just above you.

akersten 6y ago

Quite a few ISP/media conglomerate monopolies like AT&T and T-Mobile are zero-rating their own streaming services' traffic, while still counting bytes for Netflix against a pathetic mobile data cap. Anti-competitive and unfair, but it's completely permissible in a world without net neutrality.

nostromo 6y ago
Huh? T-Mobile has no streaming content service. They also give Netflix away for free with many of their plans.
- unityByFreedom 6y ago
  You get Netflix for free with T-Mobile because they have a business arrangement. It's anti-competitive to the next Netflix.
SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
Wasn’t the NN claim you would be charged more for services? As I understand it, not charging you for a specific service would still be allowed under NN.

metamet 6y ago

Comcast, for example, could ban Zoom, WhatsApp, Skype, etc. if they thought it would be financially beneficial for them to do so. They could charge more for VOIP, or gatekeep certain traffic unless you pay more. And many people don't have the luxury of multiple ISPs in their area. Simply because these corporations haven’t abused their power yet doesn't mean they wont, considering it's perfectly legal for them to do so.

nickysielicki 6y ago
As someone who is against NN and has been against it for years, I’m happy to see that NN activists still have no better argument to make than dreaming up these fictional scenarios, because the more you exaggerate the more people start to question it. The fact of the matter is that none of your doomsday scenarios have happened. The fact of the matter is that last mile internet has become more competitive in the past 4 years. The fact of the matter is that most economists are against NN, and those that are for it are only for it because they believe that last mile internet access is monopolistic — something that is increasingly harder to argue. Make a real argument. How is it more efficient to get the government involved? Why does the government have the right to claim authority over privately owned infrastructure? Why now, and if NN is so essential, why did the internet have so little trouble developing over the past 2 decades? No, I’m sorry. I don’t think we should force ISPs to follow rules that would require dramatic overbuilding of their infrastructure. I think we should leave the internet alone.
- SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
  > How is it more efficient to get the government involved? Why does the government have the right to claim authority over privately owned infrastructure? Why now, and if NN is so essential, why did the internet have so little trouble developing over the past 2 decades? I can’t answer these. I’d like to see someone attempt it, because I’ve been lambasted on this site for saying a version of what you’ve very cleanly stated. It’s like everyone has forgotten the cute “save the internet” banners on the bug sites that loaded like 56k dialup progressive pngs did. No, that hasn’t happened at all. If I was to make a piss poor attempt at your question, I would probably say that over the last two decades the scale of services didn’t increase so sharply, so what worked then might not work now... but it’s a halfhearted argument.

jbombadil 6y ago

A lack of net neutrality can be exploited without you (as a casual internet user) knowing it. It could be AT&T going to Netflix and telling them "Give me money or Netflix will be slower than Hulu". Netflix would pay, and you wouldn't know the difference. Also, if you want a less hypothetical scenario: in 2012 and 2013, AT&T blocked FaceTime.

erezyehuda 6y ago
If I recall correctly, Netflix paying to not have their data rates throttled was a real occurrence.
- baskire 6y ago
  I don’t believe that was the case. Instead it was Netflix moving infra to be directly in the ISP data center. In the past they asked ISPs to upgrade their peering with their connectivity providers for free. With said ISPs saying no (which is their right).
- fat_pikachu 6y ago
  You don't recall correctly. Netflix and Verizon got into a peering dispute, but that's hardly throttling.

judge2020 6y ago

AT&T’s mobile service currently doesn’t incur bandwidth for streaming HBO services (Max, Go, etc). When customers are choosing a streaming service, chances are they’ll gravitate to HBO instead of a competitor if they expect to be streaming heavily while on-the-go and on a shared data plan (or even an unlimited data plan - HBO streams won’t contribute to the ~22GB/mo of ‘unlimited speed’ data you get on the unlimited plan that isn’t throttled).

jjcon 6y ago
T-Mobile was doing stuff like this before the fcc adopted their current policy so I imagine stuff like that is here to stay regardless of net neutrality rules

unityByFreedom 6y ago

Zero-rating has gone from "only" happening on some mobile networks to happening in broadband [1]. Combined with data caps, it means you're paying more for some websites than others. XFinity gifts you free NBC while you need to pay for overages for viewing Netflix. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/j575gg/broadband-zero-rating-actually-costs-customers-more-study-finds https://www.vice.com/en/article/j575gg/broadband-zero-rating...

TameAntelope 6y ago

I believe many ISPs are current trying to avoid abusing their position in an obvious way, both because they anticipated this would eventually happen and a more obvious abuse would have triggered it even more quickly.