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I think the author is missing the point of the four hour work week mindset. It is not about building a unicorn; it is about freeing as much time for you to purs

I think the author is missing the point of the four hour work week mindset. It is not about building a unicorn; it is about freeing as much time for you to pursuit your interests while earning a healthy income. That being said, I don't find the book overly ethical. It simply suggests outsourcing most of the work to developing countries, where people work for less.

nelsondev 6y ago
Why is outsourcing unethical?
- rpkoven 6y ago
  I don’t think it’s unethical
- DangitBobby 6y ago
  It distributes more wealth to you by taking opportunities from those with less than you and giving them to someone desperate. Ethical actions are "rising tide lifts all boats" situations where either you help everyone make more money, or instead of taking from others, to make an extra buck, give of yourself. Within reason, of course. Then there are the second order effects, such as the dissolution of the middle class in your own country that everyone who outsources and automates is/will be partially responsible for.
  - true_religion 6y ago
    So as one of those people living in a 3rd world country, let me say we aren’t particularly desperate. Relative purchasing power of money means that even a small amount goes a long way. Ubiquitous poverty means that no one feels particularly downtrodden in comparison to their peers. Also culturally, we tend to share the wealth, so what is one job in America will become 6 jobs here. From what I can see, outsourcing deprives one American of a job, makes one American desperate, and lifts 10 of us into the local middle class.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - DangitBobby 6y ago
      Sounds like a good deal for you. It doesn't really help here or change anything that I said about the ethics of the situation.
  - zaptheimpaler 6y ago
    This is a zero-sum view.. just because you benefit doesn’t mean the other side suffers. You get the service you wanted, the other person gets the money they wanted. They wouldn’t be doing the job if they had a better option.
    - DangitBobby 6y ago
      It cannot be a zero sum view by definition, since I said that "rising tide lifts all boats" situations are ethical. I'm sure you know, such situations aren't possible in zero-sum. What can be zero-sum is if no new value is added, but you shuffle around who gets what. If Peter has a way to make $100 himself if someone else helps, and he decides to go from paying Mary $30 to paying Paul $5, he has enriched himself by taking from Mary. I'm saying it's ethical for Peter to enrich himself as long as he enriches everyone, and it is unethical to take from others to give to himself.
      - zaptheimpaler 6y ago
        $5 in Thailand might go as far as $20 in Dallas, which goes as far as $30 in New York. So if you take $30 from Mary in NY and give the equivalent of $20 to Jane in Dallas, is that unethical too? Or give $5 to someone in Thailand? At worst you could call it unpatriotic if you hire outside your country, but on a humanity scale its very hard to say its unethical or even truly understand the consequences.
- abiogenesis 6y ago
  It is not outsourcing that is unethical but to advertise it like a magical way of working less. The title of the book makes it sound like you can accomplish more by working less, while in fact the remaining 36 hours worth of work is done by someone else every week. Think of it that way: How would someone from one of the developing countries the book mentions would benefit from what's written in that book?
  - andi999 6y ago
    Easy. He would see that there is a business opportunity for him to sell outsourcing services to a developed country, which he would not have thought so before.
    - abiogenesis 6y ago
      Fair enough, but that's an unintentional side effect. He can't do that by working 4 hours a day, at least not by following the recommendations in that book.
- pietrovismara 6y ago
  Just answer this question:in a world with no poor countries, would outsourcing be possible? If the answer is no, then outsourcing is based on exploiting poverty and no, it's not ethical.
  - nelsondev 6y ago
    Giving a poor person a job is not “exploiting poverty”, it’s alleviating poverty.
    - pietrovismara 6y ago
      Giving a poor person an underpaid job is not helping them. Is making them "an offer they can't refuse". You want to alleviate poverty? Pay for their education, healthcare, give them a house. They'll pull themselves out of poverty without need for your exploitative job offer.
      - andi999 6y ago
        So the north Korea model? Free housing, education and Healthcare. Let's see how this will work out with the pulling out of poverty.
spoonjim 6y ago
That work gets money to those developing countries that otherwise wouldn't be there. A person in that country does not have the tools to get the work that the person in the first world country can. They don't even have the tools to maintain that working relationship once set up. The person orchestrating the outsourcing is transferring money from a rich country to a poor country and is essential in doing so. You can say that they should send virtually all of the money they get to that country but it's hard to argue that they're doing something unjust.
- pietrovismara 6y ago
  But why do you think people in developing countries deserve to be compensated less than others for the same work? I don't care if their alternative is a worse job, I'm asking why you, citizen of a first world country who lives daily on more than they live on average in a month, should feel ok paying them miserable wages for work that in your country would be paid 10x. Especially when the return you get is exactly the same, as you sell your product in a first world country by first world prices.
  - willcipriano 6y ago
    I've considered the same question myself. The global per capita median income is a little under 3k USD. If you wanted to make global income inequality better you'd probably start by making the west dramatically poorer.
    - pietrovismara 6y ago
      We can start by stopping exploitation of poverty. Pay western rates on everything you buy from poor countries. It's time companies learn to find their competitive edge outside of employee exploitation.
  - zajio1am 6y ago
    Why do you think that compensation should have anything to do with 'deserve'? There is no 'deserving' value for work, it is just about balancing demand and supply for work. The only realistic way to raise average wage is to saturate supply of work by providing enough demand. It is possible to outsource work tho third countries for less money, why everybody does not do that and there are still work in developed countries? Because it has some costs that may or may not be apparent. Therefore if you require to pay the same wage, you discourage anybody to give work to people in developing countries.
fuzzfactor 6y ago
If you are the rare individual that is actually capable of building something worthwhile by putting in only 4 hours a week, imagine what putting in relatively excessive time could accomplish.

nelsondev 6y ago

Why is outsourcing unethical?

rpkoven 6y ago
I don’t think it’s unethical
DangitBobby 6y ago
It distributes more wealth to you by taking opportunities from those with less than you and giving them to someone desperate. Ethical actions are "rising tide lifts all boats" situations where either you help everyone make more money, or instead of taking from others, to make an extra buck, give of yourself. Within reason, of course. Then there are the second order effects, such as the dissolution of the middle class in your own country that everyone who outsources and automates is/will be partially responsible for.
- true_religion 6y ago
  So as one of those people living in a 3rd world country, let me say we aren’t particularly desperate. Relative purchasing power of money means that even a small amount goes a long way. Ubiquitous poverty means that no one feels particularly downtrodden in comparison to their peers. Also culturally, we tend to share the wealth, so what is one job in America will become 6 jobs here. From what I can see, outsourcing deprives one American of a job, makes one American desperate, and lifts 10 of us into the local middle class.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - DangitBobby 6y ago
    Sounds like a good deal for you. It doesn't really help here or change anything that I said about the ethics of the situation.
- zaptheimpaler 6y ago
  This is a zero-sum view.. just because you benefit doesn’t mean the other side suffers. You get the service you wanted, the other person gets the money they wanted. They wouldn’t be doing the job if they had a better option.
  - DangitBobby 6y ago
    It cannot be a zero sum view by definition, since I said that "rising tide lifts all boats" situations are ethical. I'm sure you know, such situations aren't possible in zero-sum. What can be zero-sum is if no new value is added, but you shuffle around who gets what. If Peter has a way to make $100 himself if someone else helps, and he decides to go from paying Mary $30 to paying Paul $5, he has enriched himself by taking from Mary. I'm saying it's ethical for Peter to enrich himself as long as he enriches everyone, and it is unethical to take from others to give to himself.
    - zaptheimpaler 6y ago
      $5 in Thailand might go as far as $20 in Dallas, which goes as far as $30 in New York. So if you take $30 from Mary in NY and give the equivalent of $20 to Jane in Dallas, is that unethical too? Or give $5 to someone in Thailand? At worst you could call it unpatriotic if you hire outside your country, but on a humanity scale its very hard to say its unethical or even truly understand the consequences.
abiogenesis 6y ago
It is not outsourcing that is unethical but to advertise it like a magical way of working less. The title of the book makes it sound like you can accomplish more by working less, while in fact the remaining 36 hours worth of work is done by someone else every week. Think of it that way: How would someone from one of the developing countries the book mentions would benefit from what's written in that book?
- andi999 6y ago
  Easy. He would see that there is a business opportunity for him to sell outsourcing services to a developed country, which he would not have thought so before.
  - abiogenesis 6y ago
    Fair enough, but that's an unintentional side effect. He can't do that by working 4 hours a day, at least not by following the recommendations in that book.
pietrovismara 6y ago
Just answer this question:in a world with no poor countries, would outsourcing be possible? If the answer is no, then outsourcing is based on exploiting poverty and no, it's not ethical.
- nelsondev 6y ago
  Giving a poor person a job is not “exploiting poverty”, it’s alleviating poverty.
  - pietrovismara 6y ago
    Giving a poor person an underpaid job is not helping them. Is making them "an offer they can't refuse". You want to alleviate poverty? Pay for their education, healthcare, give them a house. They'll pull themselves out of poverty without need for your exploitative job offer.
    - andi999 6y ago
      So the north Korea model? Free housing, education and Healthcare. Let's see how this will work out with the pulling out of poverty.

spoonjim 6y ago

That work gets money to those developing countries that otherwise wouldn't be there. A person in that country does not have the tools to get the work that the person in the first world country can. They don't even have the tools to maintain that working relationship once set up. The person orchestrating the outsourcing is transferring money from a rich country to a poor country and is essential in doing so. You can say that they should send virtually all of the money they get to that country but it's hard to argue that they're doing something unjust.

pietrovismara 6y ago
But why do you think people in developing countries deserve to be compensated less than others for the same work? I don't care if their alternative is a worse job, I'm asking why you, citizen of a first world country who lives daily on more than they live on average in a month, should feel ok paying them miserable wages for work that in your country would be paid 10x. Especially when the return you get is exactly the same, as you sell your product in a first world country by first world prices.
- willcipriano 6y ago
  I've considered the same question myself. The global per capita median income is a little under 3k USD. If you wanted to make global income inequality better you'd probably start by making the west dramatically poorer.
  - pietrovismara 6y ago
    We can start by stopping exploitation of poverty. Pay western rates on everything you buy from poor countries. It's time companies learn to find their competitive edge outside of employee exploitation.
- zajio1am 6y ago
  Why do you think that compensation should have anything to do with 'deserve'? There is no 'deserving' value for work, it is just about balancing demand and supply for work. The only realistic way to raise average wage is to saturate supply of work by providing enough demand. It is possible to outsource work tho third countries for less money, why everybody does not do that and there are still work in developed countries? Because it has some costs that may or may not be apparent. Therefore if you require to pay the same wage, you discourage anybody to give work to people in developing countries.

fuzzfactor 6y ago

If you are the rare individual that is actually capable of building something worthwhile by putting in only 4 hours a week, imagine what putting in relatively excessive time could accomplish.