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> Regulations and subsidies are what make solar cheaper than coal in the US. Please stop parroting this. Coal is cheaper than solar in the same way that a hou

> Regulations and subsidies are what make solar cheaper than coal in the US. Please stop parroting this. Coal is cheaper than solar in the same way that a house with no down payment is free. The environmental debt from coal's CO2 emissions will far exceed costs of solar.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
This is on point - pollution is the loanshark in everyone's blindspot. To 'save' a dollar on renewables is to codemn your kids to pay a thousand
- avmich 6y ago
  The point is that even without pollution costs - and without subsidies either way - it might be more expensive to build coal plant than an equivalent solar plant. Operation costs are clearly higher in case of coal. Pollution is the cherry on top, or possibly the proverbial elephant in the room.
disown 6y ago
> Coal is cheaper than solar in the same way that a house with no down payment is free. Except that rich europeans got the "house with no down payment" for centuries, but now expect poor africans to put down a down payment? That's going to be a hard sell to poor africans desperate to get out of poverty. > The environmental debt from coal's CO2 emissions will far exceed costs of solar. Expecting poor africans to give a shit is going to be a real hard sell. Especially when the climate problem is almost exclusively a rich european creation and poor africans had nothing to do with it. Caring about climate is an enterprise of the privileged few. Unless we are willing to subsidize billions of poor africans and others around the world to the tune of trillions of dollars, I think africans and everyone else are going to go with the lowest hanging fruit. It's 2021 and hundreds of millions of africans live with electricity today. Think about that. It's insane. Considering the centuries of suffering they endured, if they have to burn down the planet to get some semblance of good life, then so be it. Let europe live in mud huts for a few centuries. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/600-million-africans-go-without-electricity-iea-chief/1502097 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/600-million-africans-go-with...
- tomp 6y ago
  > Let europe live in mud huts for a few centuries. This kind of vindictive rhetoric is probably something we should try to avoid in times like these. Even if you’re just “trying to make a point”. Really our only chance of solving the climate is doubling down on high tech. Turning Europe back centuries would be clearly counterproductive.
- imtringued 6y ago
  >Let europe live in mud huts for a few centuries. I can just buy an AC and pay for electric heating. I'm not so sure that every African can do that.
- rocknor 6y ago
  Unfortunately in 2021, lifting people out of poverty still always implies increased carbon emissions (historically that's how rich countries got to where they are). After the death of colonialism, poor countries also naturally want to have the same luxuries rich countries already enjoy. But now we realize that with our current scientific advancements these luxurious lifestyles are not sustainable for such a large global population. What you said is 100% right, just the tone was a bit harsh. Since this site mostly has people from rich countries who refuse to learn history and accept any blame, you will be downvoted.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

This is on point - pollution is the loanshark in everyone's blindspot. To 'save' a dollar on renewables is to codemn your kids to pay a thousand

avmich 6y ago
The point is that even without pollution costs - and without subsidies either way - it might be more expensive to build coal plant than an equivalent solar plant. Operation costs are clearly higher in case of coal. Pollution is the cherry on top, or possibly the proverbial elephant in the room.

disown 6y ago

> Coal is cheaper than solar in the same way that a house with no down payment is free. Except that rich europeans got the "house with no down payment" for centuries, but now expect poor africans to put down a down payment? That's going to be a hard sell to poor africans desperate to get out of poverty. > The environmental debt from coal's CO2 emissions will far exceed costs of solar. Expecting poor africans to give a shit is going to be a real hard sell. Especially when the climate problem is almost exclusively a rich european creation and poor africans had nothing to do with it. Caring about climate is an enterprise of the privileged few. Unless we are willing to subsidize billions of poor africans and others around the world to the tune of trillions of dollars, I think africans and everyone else are going to go with the lowest hanging fruit. It's 2021 and hundreds of millions of africans live with electricity today. Think about that. It's insane. Considering the centuries of suffering they endured, if they have to burn down the planet to get some semblance of good life, then so be it. Let europe live in mud huts for a few centuries. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/600-million-africans-go-without-electricity-iea-chief/1502097 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/600-million-africans-go-with...

tomp 6y ago
> Let europe live in mud huts for a few centuries. This kind of vindictive rhetoric is probably something we should try to avoid in times like these. Even if you’re just “trying to make a point”. Really our only chance of solving the climate is doubling down on high tech. Turning Europe back centuries would be clearly counterproductive.
imtringued 6y ago
>Let europe live in mud huts for a few centuries. I can just buy an AC and pay for electric heating. I'm not so sure that every African can do that.
rocknor 6y ago
Unfortunately in 2021, lifting people out of poverty still always implies increased carbon emissions (historically that's how rich countries got to where they are). After the death of colonialism, poor countries also naturally want to have the same luxuries rich countries already enjoy. But now we realize that with our current scientific advancements these luxurious lifestyles are not sustainable for such a large global population. What you said is 100% right, just the tone was a bit harsh. Since this site mostly has people from rich countries who refuse to learn history and accept any blame, you will be downvoted.