3 ms·

Can Trump be arrested for treason on Jan 21st, after Biden is inaugurated?

zmmmmm 6y ago
IANAL but that is my understanding, yes. There is a theory that a lot of his desperation to remain president is due to a tsunami of legal problems that are all waiting for him to leave office. Not sure what veracity that has but his desperation to stay in power certainly is consistent with it.
tbihl 6y ago
The instinct to arrest political enemies is one of the really bad telltales of authoritarianism, so people generally steer well clear. Unless you think that an example needs to be set so Biden and future presidents know not to act similarly, I see very little good that could come of martyring such a lightning rod... You could get an insurrection that looks hard to defeat, rather than one that merely embarrasses law enforcement.
- alsetmusic 6y ago
  The real reason that no one ever goes after an exiting president is because there is an unspoken agreement not to. The moment that the incoming party mounts a legal case against an exiting president, they ensure that the other team will do the same to them. Also, all other members of congress would become targets. So many of them are enriching themselves through their office that it's best for everyone to just look the other way and move on for the sake of "bringing the nation together." Edit to add: Imagine the indecisiveness that would be brought to the topic of war. Values are constantly changing. What if in 20 years, your extremely popular decision to invade a country for "democracy" is seen as being built on lies? Many of the wars we enter are unpopular when viewed years on. Some might consider this a feature, as it may reduce war. But what about that critical moment when you believe war is necessary and justified because a dictator is taking over half a continent? I despise violence, but wouldn't want a leader afraid to step up before a situation is potentially too late for fear of doing time.
  - vkou 6y ago
    No sitting president has ever tried to marshal his influence to steal the results of a certified election, because there is an unspoken agreement not to. That unspoken rule has been broken. Not punishing him to the fullest extent possible ensures that this will happen again. The next time a personality like him gets elected, it might be successful. I would consider it a feature if the next guy who gets the idea to start an insurrection to think twice, before he pulls the trigger.
  - slavik81 6y ago
    Political leaders ending up in prison is not that rare [1]. The United States has historically had better leadership than the sort of nations where that happens, but it's been on a bit of a decline recently. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_government_who_were_later_imprisoned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_government_wh...
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      It's not that rare, because those countries are politically unstable. The US is one of the longest living democracies.
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    By all means, go after Obama or Biden if there is merit. Go for it. In fact, let's have ALL the presidents be presidents and not kings. How does that sound to you? Also you are ignoring the fact that Trump DID go after his political opponents after the 2016 election (and again in 2020). Yet somehow, Hillary Clinton remains free, despite his best efforts. So tell me again about unspoken rules.
    - jki275 6y ago
      Trump didn’t “go after” Hillary or any other political opponent in any form whatsoever after he took office. He said a lot of things on the campaign trail and then left it at that.
alsetmusic 6y ago
CNN is running an article about his inquiring if he can pardon himself. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/donald-trump-self-pardon/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/donald-trump-self-pa...
sn41 6y ago
According to US law, a president can be impeached even if he is no longer in office.
- chii 6y ago
  Trump is already impeached - which is not removal, but a judgement at the impeachment trial that he is not fit for president. Unfortunately, the senate did not act on the impeachment judgement and thus did not get removed from office.
  - jki275 6y ago
    No. Impeachment is simply an indictment. We all know indictments work. The famous ham sandwich. The senate then takes up the indictment and as in every case to date, acquits the president. The bar to a successful removal from office is quite high and is so for a reason. There is no “impeachment trial” that results in an impeachment. There is a majority democrat house who decided to vote on an impeachment and send it to the senate for a trial. The senate the held a trial and acquitted.
- jki275 6y ago
  That doesn’t even make any sense.
  - sn41 6y ago
    It is used primarily to make the person ineligible for that post again, to ensure that he does not run again for president, for example.
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      In this case, it's really more optics. He has zero chance of ever being re-elected to the Presidency.
    - jki275 6y ago
      Alan Dershowitz: “The case cannot come to trial in the Senate. Because the Senate has rules and the rules would not allow the case to come to trial until, according to the majority leader, until 1 PM on January 20th an hour after President Trump leaves office. And the Constitution specifically says, “The President shall be removed from office upon impeachment.” It doesn’t say the former president. Congress has no power to impeach or try a private citizen, whether it be a private citizen named Donald Trump or named Barack Obama or anyone else.”
kevinmchugh 6y ago
The Constitution defines treason very narrowly and I think it's unlikely prosecutors would choose that particular charge.

IANAL but that is my understanding, yes. There is a theory that a lot of his desperation to remain president is due to a tsunami of legal problems that are all waiting for him to leave office. Not sure what veracity that has but his desperation to stay in power certainly is consistent with it.

tbihl 6y ago

The instinct to arrest political enemies is one of the really bad telltales of authoritarianism, so people generally steer well clear. Unless you think that an example needs to be set so Biden and future presidents know not to act similarly, I see very little good that could come of martyring such a lightning rod... You could get an insurrection that looks hard to defeat, rather than one that merely embarrasses law enforcement.

alsetmusic 6y ago
The real reason that no one ever goes after an exiting president is because there is an unspoken agreement not to. The moment that the incoming party mounts a legal case against an exiting president, they ensure that the other team will do the same to them. Also, all other members of congress would become targets. So many of them are enriching themselves through their office that it's best for everyone to just look the other way and move on for the sake of "bringing the nation together." Edit to add: Imagine the indecisiveness that would be brought to the topic of war. Values are constantly changing. What if in 20 years, your extremely popular decision to invade a country for "democracy" is seen as being built on lies? Many of the wars we enter are unpopular when viewed years on. Some might consider this a feature, as it may reduce war. But what about that critical moment when you believe war is necessary and justified because a dictator is taking over half a continent? I despise violence, but wouldn't want a leader afraid to step up before a situation is potentially too late for fear of doing time.
- vkou 6y ago
  No sitting president has ever tried to marshal his influence to steal the results of a certified election, because there is an unspoken agreement not to. That unspoken rule has been broken. Not punishing him to the fullest extent possible ensures that this will happen again. The next time a personality like him gets elected, it might be successful. I would consider it a feature if the next guy who gets the idea to start an insurrection to think twice, before he pulls the trigger.
- slavik81 6y ago
  Political leaders ending up in prison is not that rare [1]. The United States has historically had better leadership than the sort of nations where that happens, but it's been on a bit of a decline recently. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_government_who_were_later_imprisoned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_government_wh...
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    It's not that rare, because those countries are politically unstable. The US is one of the longest living democracies.
- chillwaves 6y ago
  By all means, go after Obama or Biden if there is merit. Go for it. In fact, let's have ALL the presidents be presidents and not kings. How does that sound to you? Also you are ignoring the fact that Trump DID go after his political opponents after the 2016 election (and again in 2020). Yet somehow, Hillary Clinton remains free, despite his best efforts. So tell me again about unspoken rules.
  - jki275 6y ago
    Trump didn’t “go after” Hillary or any other political opponent in any form whatsoever after he took office. He said a lot of things on the campaign trail and then left it at that.

alsetmusic 6y ago

CNN is running an article about his inquiring if he can pardon himself. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/donald-trump-self-pardon/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/donald-trump-self-pa...

sn41 6y ago

According to US law, a president can be impeached even if he is no longer in office.

chii 6y ago
Trump is already impeached - which is not removal, but a judgement at the impeachment trial that he is not fit for president. Unfortunately, the senate did not act on the impeachment judgement and thus did not get removed from office.
- jki275 6y ago
  No. Impeachment is simply an indictment. We all know indictments work. The famous ham sandwich. The senate then takes up the indictment and as in every case to date, acquits the president. The bar to a successful removal from office is quite high and is so for a reason. There is no “impeachment trial” that results in an impeachment. There is a majority democrat house who decided to vote on an impeachment and send it to the senate for a trial. The senate the held a trial and acquitted.
jki275 6y ago
That doesn’t even make any sense.
- sn41 6y ago
  It is used primarily to make the person ineligible for that post again, to ensure that he does not run again for president, for example.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    In this case, it's really more optics. He has zero chance of ever being re-elected to the Presidency.
  - jki275 6y ago
    Alan Dershowitz: “The case cannot come to trial in the Senate. Because the Senate has rules and the rules would not allow the case to come to trial until, according to the majority leader, until 1 PM on January 20th an hour after President Trump leaves office. And the Constitution specifically says, “The President shall be removed from office upon impeachment.” It doesn’t say the former president. Congress has no power to impeach or try a private citizen, whether it be a private citizen named Donald Trump or named Barack Obama or anyone else.”

kevinmchugh 6y ago

The Constitution defines treason very narrowly and I think it's unlikely prosecutors would choose that particular charge.