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I work at Gumroad, mentioned in this article. Sometimes, I read things by CEOs about how a company works on the inside and I wonder if it really looks like tha
by philipkiely 6y ago
I work at Gumroad, mentioned in this article.
Sometimes, I read things by CEOs about how a company works on the inside and I wonder if it really looks like that, or if it is a view from the top that doesn't reflect what it's really like.
This article, with its discussions of the upsides and downsides, is accurate to my experience and my understanding of other people's experiences. For many people, Gumroad wouldn't be a great place to work, but for those of us who want to work like this, it is exactly what we need. Very glad to be working at Gumroad and working in the ways the article describes.
Edit: Following up with a few FAQs from posts in the thread:
* Health Insurance: I'm personally lucky enough to still be covered on my dad's health insurance until I turn 26, thanks to the ACA, though for supplementary (vision, dental) I make more than enough to afford proper health insurance on the open market. Everyone at Gumroad is paid very well and should be able to afford the same.
* Regarding overtime, benefits, etc: we make very competitive rates as contractors. I sincerely appreciate your concern, though.
* On the shift from full-time employees to contractors, the company declined and was rebuilt over a period of five years. I'm a relatively recent addition, so I only know Gumroad as it is now, I cannot comment on how it was. All I can say is that it's not like Sahil went out and fired everyone and then the next day it was a bunch of contractors.
- dkdk8283 6y agoI’d love something like this: I loathe the bullshit factory process has become.
- ska 6y agoProcess is one of those things you have whether you think about it or not. It's up to you collectively to decide if it is BS or not, too heavy, too light, etc. I'm not suggesting everyone has the influence to change process much at the place they work, but they idea that there is a single "thing" called process and some places have it and some don't is just dangerously misleading. It is true that process tends to naturally scale with org size and longevity because communication becomes more complicated with this scaling - but that only gives you a bit of a lower bound (i.e. if you go below this, you start shooting yourselves in the feet)
- wussboy 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessne...
- tartoran 6y agoIt really depends how that process is adopted. If it's organically in-house grown and it does makes sense then it becomes a synergic glue. If it's imposed top down from the outside because "that company does it, lets follow suit" then it can become a pain and cause more harm than good. I liken that to goo.
- tomnipotent 6y ago> "that company does it, lets follow suit" This is always a red flag I'm dealing with someone inexperienced, or desperate. Processes can be very unique to each company, especially the problems that they're facing, and trying to shoehorn someone else's process into your own business without understanding the problems that process is solving is a recipe for failure.
- GoatOfAplomb 6y agoCargo cults: not just for code!
- nradov 6y agoThere are two sides to that. Some processes grow organically in house in ways that ignore industry best practices. Everyone likes to think that their organization is special but few really are. They could often benefit from an improved process imposed top down by someone with broader experience and an ability to see the big picture. Of course changing processes always involves some short term pain.
- dkdk8283 6y ago> but they idea that there is a single "thing" called process and some places have it and some don't is just dangerously misleading. Is that what I said? No. I got into computers because I dislike people: leave me alone and let me work.
- creddit 6y agoAre you willing to provide any additional clarity on "very competitive rates as contractors"? I understand if not but would be useful to help some of us externally think about this model.
- philipkiely 6y agoI won't discuss other people's rates but I personally earn ten thousand USD per month.
- tyrust 6y agoThanks for the number. Are you willing to add how many hours you're putting in?
- philipkiely 6y agoIt really depends and I don't track my time all that well, though one of my 2021 things I'm doing is trying a bit of time tracking, just for my own sake / more visibility on how I spend my day.
- oAlbe 6y agoWhat are you using to do time tracking, if I may ask?
- swyx 6y agotheir official deal is well known - it's a quarter time role so formally about 10 hours a week. of course, the time they end up actually putting in is up to them.
- creddit 6y agoThank you for sharing!
- DVassallo 6y agoI’m making $10K/mo for a quarter-time PM role at Gumroad (so about $250/hr).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- callmeed 6y ago> I make more than enough to afford proper health insurance on the open market. Everyone at Gumroad is paid very well and should be able to afford the same. This might be true for everyone at Gumroad, but I wouldn't be so sure. You also seem dismissive (probably unintentionally) of one of the biggest problems we have in the US right now: health care and insurance is ridiculously expensive–especially for people with families who want to be self-employed or contractors. A family of 4 who doesn't qualify for ACA subsidies is going to pay $1,400/month or more out-of-pocket for health insurance. And it goes up every year. Imagine paying 10%+ of your salary just for health insurance.
- mkingston 6y agoIn the USA ~17% of GDP appears to be spent on health care. I guess that skews fairly heavily toward elderly people, but 10% on health insurance for a family of four doesn't seem out of the realms of sanity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_h...
- deathgrips 6y agoMaybe that's because the US needs more healthcare?
- barry-cotter 6y agoA consequence of the US being richer. They spend more on education too. Baumol’s cost disease means as a country gets richer more money will go to labor costs and medicine is really labor intensive. I’m not sure I’d say the US needs more healthcare so much as they can afford it and that’s how they choose to spend the money. Healthcare and education will soak up a practically unlimited amount of money, and if you’re the richest country in the world you have more money. The US has higher household consumption than anywhere else bar Hong Kong. Rich countries spend more on healthcare and the US is the richest.
- callmeed 6y agoBy itself maybe not. The problem is I live in California, which means I pay about 40% income tax (state and federal combined). Yet I still don’t get health care/coverage. Also notice how the gap in that graph is getting wider. It gets worse every year.
- heavyset_go 6y ago> Everyone at Gumroad is paid very well and should be able to afford the same. Have you looked at how much decent health insurance coverage costs on the individual market without income-based ACA subsidies? It's absolutely insane, and even more insane if you want family coverage. For a similar, but nowhere near equivalent, of an employer provided healthcare plan, I'm looking at spending more than $9,000 in premiums each year, a $3,000 deductible, a $8,000 out-of-pocket maximum and co-pays for doctor visits and medication. If I add a spouse and one kid, for a plan similar to an employer provided plan, premiums sky rocket to over $30,000 a year, with a $5,000 deductible, a $17,000 out-of-pocket maximum, co-pays etc.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- irateswami 6y agoBingo. Saying that the employees are paid well enough to buy their own health insurance is a red herring because it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, companies get far better rates on insurance products. Gumroad could probably save a significant amount of money by providing health insurance to their employees and just not paying as high of a salary.
- literallycancer 6y agoCompany provided health insurance creates incentives for employees to delay leaving and stay in jobs they don't like anymore. This lowers the quality of life for everyone involved.
- irateswami 6y agoThat's a pretty weak arg all around. I'd wager this is a rare situation, compared to the number of good employees recruited and retained by offered quality benefits.
- petre 6y agoThe article has answered most but two questions: what does Gumroad do? How is it meaningful in today's society?
- zmmmmm 6y agoI'm curious how they hold their technical architecture together. Is the architecture mature enough that there are no decisions to be made? I know if I ran my team without syncing up directly on things we'd end up with horrific inconsistencies all over the place and it would become impossible to support. I would guess longer term quality would suffer as well.
- eloisant 6y agoThey say that they write a lot, so maybe what other organizations do with direct sync up, they do with detailed documents and async discussions around those documents.
- em-bee 6y agohow do FOSS projects run by volunteer contributors hold their architecture together? either one person is calling all the shots, or decisions are made through email discussions or irc or whatever forum they favor nowadays. synchronous meetings are not required. if you consider that in a meeting everyone takes their turn, people respond to each other, and eventually maybe vote on decisions, all this can be done by email. it just takes a bit longer, and you have to factor that in your time planning. not having meetings doesn't mean that people don't talk to each other.
- yeswecatan 6y agoHow does one apply to Gumroad?
- asolanaruiz 6y agoI didn't see any open positions, maybe they're not hiring right now.
- trynewideas 6y ago> Everyone at Gumroad is paid very well and should be able to afford the same. I wrote a long and very emotional response to this. In the end I decided to simply say that, if I worked at Gumroad instead of at an employer who pays me about 10% less but pays even just part of the premium on mediocre health insurance, the events of the last six months would have killed my partner, bankrupted me, and left me widowed and homeless in the middle of a pandemic. At best, I'd be six figures in medical debt. At worst, I'd be seven figures in medical debt. You all can go without insurance? Great. That's great _for you_. Congrats _to you_. Good luck _to you_. Yes, the system is horrendously broken. But just acknowledge — just _acknowledge_! — that it's a massive, massive, massive privilege to be able to afford to work a job that doesn't offer health insurance in the United States as it exists right now. Consider how many people absolutely cannot fathom working for Gumroad as a result. I don't want to hear you do it. Just think. Think about it. Please!
- jiveturkey 6y agohuh? why wouldn’t you buy private health insurance? it’s a wash.
- ddoeth 6y agoIs there a site to check if there are any openings right now?