4 ms·

What about Trump/Russia collusion?

oivey 6y ago
One of Trump’s children perjured themselves to lie about the purposes of a meeting with a Russian lawyer (later proven to be for Clinton dirt), his campaign manager was convicted for laundering money with Russia connected people, an advisor was convicted for coordinating with WikiLeaks, and some lower level campaign staffers were convicted for more improper connections with Russians. There wasn’t enough proof to say whether Trump personally knew about these things, but the alternative where he is clueless isn’t exactly a good look, either. All of those things were proven in court. Not one of Trump’s barrage of election lawsuits has gained any traction at all. They are very much not the same.
ModernMech 6y ago
Trump claimed his campaign had zero contacts with Russia and no business deals in Russia. Turns out his campaign had hundreds of contacts with Russia and Trump was planning to build a tower in Moscow with a penthouse gift for Vladimir Putin. Source: Volume 1 of the Mueller Report Trump's son, son in law, and campaign manager met with a convicted Russian spy at Trump's house to discuss a trade of damaging information on Hillary Clinton in return to relaxed relations between the two nations in the form of repeal of the Magnitsky Act. Trump lied that this ever happened and tried to create a cover story which was blown apart. Source: Volume 1 of the Mueller Report Trump's campaign manager met with a Russian intelligence officer and exchanged internal Trump campaign data which is presumed to have been transferred to the FSB. Source: Senate Committee on Intelligence of Russian Active Measures Campaigns and Interference Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.” Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that “favored” candidate Trump and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks. Russia also targeted databases in many states related to administering elections gaining access to information for millions of registered voters Source: Volume 1 of the Mueller Report The Mueller team was unable to establish a before-the-fact criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia. The Mueller report includes a whole second chapter dealing with obstruction from the President and his allies, which included lying (by the President himself), witness tampering, interfering with principle investigators, and destroying evidence. And what did Democrats do with all of this? Did they storm the capital? Did they even impeach the President for any of this? There was literally no response what. so. ever. Oh, and during all of this the President promised pardons for those who would obstruct the investigation, such as Paul Manafort, who was literally meeting with a Russian Intel Officer and handing him Trump campaign data. If that is not collusion, what is? And then Trump pardoned him. So more obstruction on top of it all.
- jdkee 6y ago
  Donald J. Trump was impeached. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/18/us/politics/trump-impeached.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/18/us/politics/trump-impeach...
  - adolph 6y ago
    For obstructing Congress' investigation into an whistleblower complaint that he pressured the president of Ukraine to "initiate or continue an investigation into the activities of former Vice President Joseph Biden and his son, Hunter Biden" https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764071379/read-house-intel-releases-whistleblower-complaint-on-trump-ukraine-call https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764071379/read-house-intel-re...
    - treeman79 6y ago
      Of course it turns out hunter biden has been under criminal investigation for awhile. But democratic controlled media and companies “fact checked it” so it was censored everywhere until election was over.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
waldoh 6y ago
For people who cream themselves over good documentation, why are there so ma y people who refuse to read the mueller report? It's not that long. Who am I kidding, we all know the answer is that you think by ignoring the facts insulates you from realizing the republican party and their leader colluded with a foreign adversary to influence the election
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  I dunno if there was actual collusion, but it was definitely shady as all hell. I do think this was a case where the cover-up was worse than the crime.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  I read it, and it doesn’t say that at all. Why lie?
lokar 6y ago
The fact/news reporting from the NYT and others on that story was in fact all correct. It was really just "process reporting", telling us what was going on (who the FBI was talking to, who said what, what got leaked, etc). They did not draw conclusions. Over in the editorial section there were people trying to stitch that all into a vast conspiracy that was in the end not proven out. But that's what editorial is about.
- rayiner 6y ago
  Do you not understand how what’s going on in the editorial section colors peoples’ views of whether they can trust the paper?
sagichmal 6y ago
> What about Trump/Russia collusion? You mean the thing that several people were tried and found guilty of?

One of Trump’s children perjured themselves to lie about the purposes of a meeting with a Russian lawyer (later proven to be for Clinton dirt), his campaign manager was convicted for laundering money with Russia connected people, an advisor was convicted for coordinating with WikiLeaks, and some lower level campaign staffers were convicted for more improper connections with Russians. There wasn’t enough proof to say whether Trump personally knew about these things, but the alternative where he is clueless isn’t exactly a good look, either. All of those things were proven in court. Not one of Trump’s barrage of election lawsuits has gained any traction at all. They are very much not the same.

ModernMech 6y ago

Trump claimed his campaign had zero contacts with Russia and no business deals in Russia. Turns out his campaign had hundreds of contacts with Russia and Trump was planning to build a tower in Moscow with a penthouse gift for Vladimir Putin. Source: Volume 1 of the Mueller Report Trump's son, son in law, and campaign manager met with a convicted Russian spy at Trump's house to discuss a trade of damaging information on Hillary Clinton in return to relaxed relations between the two nations in the form of repeal of the Magnitsky Act. Trump lied that this ever happened and tried to create a cover story which was blown apart. Source: Volume 1 of the Mueller Report Trump's campaign manager met with a Russian intelligence officer and exchanged internal Trump campaign data which is presumed to have been transferred to the FSB. Source: Senate Committee on Intelligence of Russian Active Measures Campaigns and Interference Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.” Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that “favored” candidate Trump and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks. Russia also targeted databases in many states related to administering elections gaining access to information for millions of registered voters Source: Volume 1 of the Mueller Report The Mueller team was unable to establish a before-the-fact criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia. The Mueller report includes a whole second chapter dealing with obstruction from the President and his allies, which included lying (by the President himself), witness tampering, interfering with principle investigators, and destroying evidence. And what did Democrats do with all of this? Did they storm the capital? Did they even impeach the President for any of this? There was literally no response what. so. ever. Oh, and during all of this the President promised pardons for those who would obstruct the investigation, such as Paul Manafort, who was literally meeting with a Russian Intel Officer and handing him Trump campaign data. If that is not collusion, what is? And then Trump pardoned him. So more obstruction on top of it all.

jdkee 6y ago
Donald J. Trump was impeached. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/18/us/politics/trump-impeached.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/18/us/politics/trump-impeach...
- adolph 6y ago
  For obstructing Congress' investigation into an whistleblower complaint that he pressured the president of Ukraine to "initiate or continue an investigation into the activities of former Vice President Joseph Biden and his son, Hunter Biden" https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764071379/read-house-intel-releases-whistleblower-complaint-on-trump-ukraine-call https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764071379/read-house-intel-re...
  - treeman79 6y ago
    Of course it turns out hunter biden has been under criminal investigation for awhile. But democratic controlled media and companies “fact checked it” so it was censored everywhere until election was over.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

waldoh 6y ago

For people who cream themselves over good documentation, why are there so ma y people who refuse to read the mueller report? It's not that long. Who am I kidding, we all know the answer is that you think by ignoring the facts insulates you from realizing the republican party and their leader colluded with a foreign adversary to influence the election

disgruntledphd2 6y ago
I dunno if there was actual collusion, but it was definitely shady as all hell. I do think this was a case where the cover-up was worse than the crime.
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
I read it, and it doesn’t say that at all. Why lie?

lokar 6y ago

The fact/news reporting from the NYT and others on that story was in fact all correct. It was really just "process reporting", telling us what was going on (who the FBI was talking to, who said what, what got leaked, etc). They did not draw conclusions. Over in the editorial section there were people trying to stitch that all into a vast conspiracy that was in the end not proven out. But that's what editorial is about.

rayiner 6y ago
Do you not understand how what’s going on in the editorial section colors peoples’ views of whether they can trust the paper?

sagichmal 6y ago

> What about Trump/Russia collusion? You mean the thing that several people were tried and found guilty of?