5 ms·

yeah I'm sure this had nothing to do with the attempted coup

by rat87 6y ago

esja 6y ago
Genuine request as I've seem this framing a lot and cannot understand it: Can you point to the specific things that occurred which you believe were part of an attempted coup, and why you believe they were?
- macintux 6y ago
  Trump wanted Pence to violate them constitution and overturn the election. When Pence refused he then went to an angry protest and told them to match the Capitol and fight like hell. The then refused to deploy the National Guard to protect the Capitol and reportedly was thrilled at the fact that the certification was interrupted by the rioters. After much pressure he finally put out a weak statement telling the rioters he loved them and they should go home, but the election was still a fraud. What part of that fails to fall under encouraging an insurrection?
  - esja 6y ago
    A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held. Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?), just by occupying a building? How could this have ended with them (or even Trump) in power?
    - cycrutchfield 6y ago
      Did you conveniently ignore that some of the folks who broke into the capitol were armed with spears, clubs and firearms, carrying ziptie handcuffs? If the capitol police were not able to secure the escape of the senators and representatives, what do you imagine might have happened when the mob descended upon them?
      - djsumdog 6y ago
        Did you conveniently ignore the part that the Capitol Police, one of the most well armed and well funded police forces in the US, are either terrible incompetent and couldn't protect one of the most important buildings in the US. Or did you ignore the videos of them removing barriers, or Trump supporters yelling at people breaking glass to stop, or protestors getting selfies with the guards in the building and tapping them on the shoulder and thanking them for their service?
        lovecg 6y ago
        I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but there’s at least one video of protesters violently removing the barriers https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/1346966514990149639 https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/13469665149... This is a good list as well https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_riot_list_of_acts_of_violence_and_calls_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_ri...
        djsumdog 6y ago
        Here's one video: https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930 https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930 There was also one on Steve Bannon's War Room too this morning towards the end. There are multiple ones if you just search of the Capitol police literally waving people in.
        djsumdog 6y ago
        oh and here is a video of Trump supporter stopping a vandal: https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be29-c43a9d104529/IoyZ7lCJSgerYbsM.mp4 https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be2...
        lovecg 6y ago
        The links don’t open for me, sorry. I’ve seen the first video judging by the thumbnail; it shows a cop waving to someone offscreen. Other cops maybe? Given that we have plenty of video of police being attacked I’ll need stronger evidence for the “cops waved them through” theory.
    - zmmmmm 6y ago
      > Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?) Trump told them he won the election. He told them it was fraudulently stolen from them. He told them that this could be rectified by interfering in the proceedings. His intent was to take and retain power by remaining president through intimidating congress into refusing to count the electoral college votes. So yes - they were intending to take power. The fact it was based on a made up fantasy with no basis in reality does not alter the intent of either the rabble or Trump who incited them and painted that reality for them.
      - esja 6y ago
        I have heard this theory stated, but where is the actual evidence that this was the plan and their actions were aligned to that? So far I've only seen people asserting that this was the plan, rather than showing actual evidence linking these things together. It's easy to join dots that don't exist, just as the Trump people seem to have done with electoral fraud.
    - nobody9999 6y ago
      >A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held I (obviously) can't know what was in the minds of the folks who broke into the Capitol. However, multiple news reports detail that a number of the folks arrested were carrying police-restraint style cable ties, firearms and explosives. Given that both the Vice-president and the Speaker of the House (#2 and #3 in line of succession to the presidency), as well as both houses of Congress were in the Capitol at that moment, it's fair to ask who those folks intended to restrain with those cable ties? And once they were restrained, what would they do with those restrained people? Again, I can't say what was in the minds of the folks who attempted to occupy the US Capitol building, but some certainly brought weapons and tools indicating that they wanted to take hostages and possibly harm/kill them. Do you usually bring molotov cocktails and police-style plastic restraints when you go sightseeing? Out to dinner, maybe? Or even to a protest rally? While the protestors didn't storm the Capitol or bring tools to restrain people and destroy property, some segment of the rioters/insurrectionists did so. As I mentioned, taking hostage and murdering the Vice President, the Speaker of the House and perhaps many members of Congress probably wouldn't have destroyed our government, but it certainly could be considered a coup attempt and definitely would be insurrection.
  - Bantros 6y ago
    All of it
- frob 6y ago
  Exhibit A: Trump's attempted coercion of the GA secretary of state to overturn a certified and triple-counted election. Exhibit B: Rudy going around and encouraging Republican state legislatures to throw out the vote of the people and instead appoint Donald Trump. Exhibit C: Trump continuing to tell his supporters that they're right to be angry and this whole election was an undemocratic coup against him even when ostensibly telling them to go home hours after they've breached the Capitol building. Exhibit D: Literally everything else Trump and his cronies have said over the past 2 months and the past 5.5 years.
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  Read a transcript of Trump’s verbal diarrhea from his speech yesterday. This was clearly a putsch
chasd00 6y ago
coup is a bit much. this happens from time to time at the state level, protesters push their way into chambers. they should have just been arrested, the police dropped the ball.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  This went a bit further than a protest I would think.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    No it absolutely did not. Stop buying the bullshit the media is feeding you.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      If busting the windows out of a Walgreens goes beyond a protest, so does busting the windows out of the US capitol.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      It's not the 'bulsshit the media is feeding me', it is the eyewitness testimony from the rioters. Instead, I'd suggest you try to re-calibrate what you think is normal.
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  It’s a putsch because the intent was to disrupt or prevent the certification of the next president, literally the formal approval of the transfer of power. This is not a bunch of yahoos upset with a governor about coronavirus restrictions.
  - chasd00 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dstola 6y ago
I don't think there is any reason to exaggerate. People have a will and a right to protest against their perceived injustice at a state or federal level. A coup also usually involves the military and a taking of government by force, neither of which happened yesterday. If this were a coup then the BLM "protests" over the summer were also a coup, and they were causing significantly more damage to small business with destruction and looting. You are being disingenuous if you label this as a "coup" regurgitating biased media talking points.
- apocalypstyx 6y ago
  When did BLM protestors force their way into a capital building with the express goal of overturning the results of an election?
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    Do you really think Trump protesters wanted to overthrow an election result by breaking into a building? Have you seen the videos of Capitol Police removing barriers and leading them into the buildings, or some of them taking selfies with the protestors? Either the Capitol Police are fucking terrible incompetent or they wanted this to happen. BLM rioters burned down a police station in Minneapolis/St Paul. They took over 6 square blocks in Seattle and their "community police" shot up a Jeep killing a 14 year old boy and removed all the evidence (https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-bd19-44fea7966c27 https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-...). These people walked into a public building and everyone is upset because they walked around the sacred halls of the rich and powerful; the house of the people. It was peasants in the castle and we can't have that. Was it wrong? absolutely. That's why the vast majority of people stayed outside. Oh and a woman was shot by that incompetent Capitol Security force. It's okay though because her life didn't matter since she's white. I'm pretty sure it was her fault because victim blaming is alright if the victim is a privileged air force veteran and isn't an oppressed minority.
  - dstola 6y ago
    The Capitol was the focal point of the protest due to the location and in this case the perceived injustice of the election. When almost half the voting population thinks there is something wrong with the election, maybe its time to listen to those people. If anything I think the hivemind and unemployed young people showing frustration was the spark that ignited what happened yesterday. I am not trying to justify it as good or bad, but it was not a coup by a long shot and you cant haphazardly label it as such.

yeah I'm sure this had nothing to do with the attempted coup

by rat87 6y ago

yeah I'm sure this had nothing to do with the attempted coup

esja 6y ago

Genuine request as I've seem this framing a lot and cannot understand it: Can you point to the specific things that occurred which you believe were part of an attempted coup, and why you believe they were?

macintux 6y ago
Trump wanted Pence to violate them constitution and overturn the election. When Pence refused he then went to an angry protest and told them to match the Capitol and fight like hell. The then refused to deploy the National Guard to protect the Capitol and reportedly was thrilled at the fact that the certification was interrupted by the rioters. After much pressure he finally put out a weak statement telling the rioters he loved them and they should go home, but the election was still a fraud. What part of that fails to fall under encouraging an insurrection?
- esja 6y ago
  A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held. Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?), just by occupying a building? How could this have ended with them (or even Trump) in power?
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    Did you conveniently ignore that some of the folks who broke into the capitol were armed with spears, clubs and firearms, carrying ziptie handcuffs? If the capitol police were not able to secure the escape of the senators and representatives, what do you imagine might have happened when the mob descended upon them?
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      Did you conveniently ignore the part that the Capitol Police, one of the most well armed and well funded police forces in the US, are either terrible incompetent and couldn't protect one of the most important buildings in the US. Or did you ignore the videos of them removing barriers, or Trump supporters yelling at people breaking glass to stop, or protestors getting selfies with the guards in the building and tapping them on the shoulder and thanking them for their service?
      - lovecg 6y ago
        I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but there’s at least one video of protesters violently removing the barriers https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/1346966514990149639 https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/13469665149... This is a good list as well https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_riot_list_of_acts_of_violence_and_calls_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_ri...
        djsumdog 6y ago
        Here's one video: https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930 https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930 There was also one on Steve Bannon's War Room too this morning towards the end. There are multiple ones if you just search of the Capitol police literally waving people in.
        djsumdog 6y ago
        oh and here is a video of Trump supporter stopping a vandal: https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be29-c43a9d104529/IoyZ7lCJSgerYbsM.mp4 https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be2...
        lovecg 6y ago
        The links don’t open for me, sorry. I’ve seen the first video judging by the thumbnail; it shows a cop waving to someone offscreen. Other cops maybe? Given that we have plenty of video of police being attacked I’ll need stronger evidence for the “cops waved them through” theory.
  - zmmmmm 6y ago
    > Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?) Trump told them he won the election. He told them it was fraudulently stolen from them. He told them that this could be rectified by interfering in the proceedings. His intent was to take and retain power by remaining president through intimidating congress into refusing to count the electoral college votes. So yes - they were intending to take power. The fact it was based on a made up fantasy with no basis in reality does not alter the intent of either the rabble or Trump who incited them and painted that reality for them.
    - esja 6y ago
      I have heard this theory stated, but where is the actual evidence that this was the plan and their actions were aligned to that? So far I've only seen people asserting that this was the plan, rather than showing actual evidence linking these things together. It's easy to join dots that don't exist, just as the Trump people seem to have done with electoral fraud.
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    >A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held I (obviously) can't know what was in the minds of the folks who broke into the Capitol. However, multiple news reports detail that a number of the folks arrested were carrying police-restraint style cable ties, firearms and explosives. Given that both the Vice-president and the Speaker of the House (#2 and #3 in line of succession to the presidency), as well as both houses of Congress were in the Capitol at that moment, it's fair to ask who those folks intended to restrain with those cable ties? And once they were restrained, what would they do with those restrained people? Again, I can't say what was in the minds of the folks who attempted to occupy the US Capitol building, but some certainly brought weapons and tools indicating that they wanted to take hostages and possibly harm/kill them. Do you usually bring molotov cocktails and police-style plastic restraints when you go sightseeing? Out to dinner, maybe? Or even to a protest rally? While the protestors didn't storm the Capitol or bring tools to restrain people and destroy property, some segment of the rioters/insurrectionists did so. As I mentioned, taking hostage and murdering the Vice President, the Speaker of the House and perhaps many members of Congress probably wouldn't have destroyed our government, but it certainly could be considered a coup attempt and definitely would be insurrection.
- Bantros 6y ago
  All of it
frob 6y ago
Exhibit A: Trump's attempted coercion of the GA secretary of state to overturn a certified and triple-counted election. Exhibit B: Rudy going around and encouraging Republican state legislatures to throw out the vote of the people and instead appoint Donald Trump. Exhibit C: Trump continuing to tell his supporters that they're right to be angry and this whole election was an undemocratic coup against him even when ostensibly telling them to go home hours after they've breached the Capitol building. Exhibit D: Literally everything else Trump and his cronies have said over the past 2 months and the past 5.5 years.
cycrutchfield 6y ago
Read a transcript of Trump’s verbal diarrhea from his speech yesterday. This was clearly a putsch

chasd00 6y ago

coup is a bit much. this happens from time to time at the state level, protesters push their way into chambers. they should have just been arrested, the police dropped the ball.

jacquesm 6y ago
This went a bit further than a protest I would think.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  No it absolutely did not. Stop buying the bullshit the media is feeding you.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    If busting the windows out of a Walgreens goes beyond a protest, so does busting the windows out of the US capitol.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    It's not the 'bulsshit the media is feeding me', it is the eyewitness testimony from the rioters. Instead, I'd suggest you try to re-calibrate what you think is normal.
cycrutchfield 6y ago
It’s a putsch because the intent was to disrupt or prevent the certification of the next president, literally the formal approval of the transfer of power. This is not a bunch of yahoos upset with a governor about coronavirus restrictions.
- chasd00 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dstola 6y ago

I don't think there is any reason to exaggerate. People have a will and a right to protest against their perceived injustice at a state or federal level. A coup also usually involves the military and a taking of government by force, neither of which happened yesterday. If this were a coup then the BLM "protests" over the summer were also a coup, and they were causing significantly more damage to small business with destruction and looting. You are being disingenuous if you label this as a "coup" regurgitating biased media talking points.

apocalypstyx 6y ago
When did BLM protestors force their way into a capital building with the express goal of overturning the results of an election?
- djsumdog 6y ago
  Do you really think Trump protesters wanted to overthrow an election result by breaking into a building? Have you seen the videos of Capitol Police removing barriers and leading them into the buildings, or some of them taking selfies with the protestors? Either the Capitol Police are fucking terrible incompetent or they wanted this to happen. BLM rioters burned down a police station in Minneapolis/St Paul. They took over 6 square blocks in Seattle and their "community police" shot up a Jeep killing a 14 year old boy and removed all the evidence (https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-bd19-44fea7966c27 https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-...). These people walked into a public building and everyone is upset because they walked around the sacred halls of the rich and powerful; the house of the people. It was peasants in the castle and we can't have that. Was it wrong? absolutely. That's why the vast majority of people stayed outside. Oh and a woman was shot by that incompetent Capitol Security force. It's okay though because her life didn't matter since she's white. I'm pretty sure it was her fault because victim blaming is alright if the victim is a privileged air force veteran and isn't an oppressed minority.
- dstola 6y ago
  The Capitol was the focal point of the protest due to the location and in this case the perceived injustice of the election. When almost half the voting population thinks there is something wrong with the election, maybe its time to listen to those people. If anything I think the hivemind and unemployed young people showing frustration was the spark that ignited what happened yesterday. I am not trying to justify it as good or bad, but it was not a coup by a long shot and you cant haphazardly label it as such.