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> involving use of our platform to incite violent insurrection against a democratically elected government. From my understanding the video that got banned ask

> involving use of our platform to incite violent insurrection against a democratically elected government. From my understanding the video that got banned asked everyone to go home peacefully but then continued to claim election fraud?

uncoder0 6y ago
You are correct the video all the platforms are using to justify the bans explicitly asked people to go home. Previously he had urged them to be peaceful which they mostly were as evidenced by the fact that no capitol staff or police were in any way injured during the incident. edit: Leaving my comment intact as there are people who have replied. VBProgrammer pointed out that a portion of my statement is not true. This morning the DC police revealed two officers were hospitalized with injuries and one was described as having serious injuries while 12 others suffered other injuries.
- ndjdjxjsjdjdhd 6y ago
  I’m sorry and I’m being serious. Why is he banned then?
  - uncoder0 6y ago
    He's no longer useful to them for generating traffic and user data.
  - moate 6y ago
    Because the above post is a misrepresentation of what was said.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    Because the entire attack on Capitol yesterday can be tied directly to the speech he has made just before it. Just because no police/staff were harmed doesn't make it ok - after all, destruction of federal property and buildings carries a potential 10 year imprisonment penalty. So not only he's encouraging criminal actions, but after these actions occurs he tells these criminals that he loves them. And yes, tells them to go home - great, but that's not a redeeming factor here. So......is it still not clear why he's banned?
    - moate 6y ago
      Fact check: Several police officers were harmed/treated for injuries. The crowd used chemical weapons (pepper/bear spray) on officers at several different times during the riot. No less than 2 improvised explosives were recovered from the scene. Please don't give into the "peaceful" narrative. https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/07/954333542/four-dead-police-injured-dozens-arrested-after-siege-at-the-u-s-capitol https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tall...
      - gambiting 6y ago
        Ok, yeah, my mistake for just repeating a stupid comment then. Thanks for correcting it.
      - jonathanstrange 6y ago
        Some of them were also armed with assault rifles, others with blunt weapons like baseball bats. And they were stupid enough to get filmed on camera and partly even incriminated themselves afterwards by admitting the crime and providing their real names in front of the camera. It's pretty crazy, if you think about it.
  - greenpolygon 6y ago
    His commentary on election fraud is seen as fueling the riot. Paraphrasing, the video comes across as: "you should go home. You're special and I love you. This is a fraudulent, illegitimate election and america is being stolen from you" It's like people who start sentences with "no offense, but"
  - yuters 6y ago
    His speech condone their actions at first and then asks them to be calm and go home. You can't have it both ways.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  Destroying and stealing is not "peaceful", it's just not "violent against people".
  - UnFleshedOne 6y ago
    It is, in the new 2020 definition.
- forgetfulness 6y ago
  Then doubling down on the narrative that drives these people, one that is directly opposed to peaceful transfer of power: the illegitimacy of the election results. That's an incredibly dangerous message from the President of the United States, he's telling them to go home in one sentence and riling them up in the other, that encourages further insurrection around his persona. Facebook is in the right not to allow that spark when whole situation is a powder keg.
  - lurker619 6y ago
    This really reminds me of Antony's "Friends, romans, countrymen..." speech that is ostensibly peaceful and respectful but is actually riling up the crowd.
- VBprogrammer 6y ago
  That's false. At least 14 officers hurt. See for example: https://www.foxnews.com/us/d-c-mayor-issues-order-extending-public-emergency-for-15-days-following-chaos-at-capitol https://www.foxnews.com/us/d-c-mayor-issues-order-extending-...
  - hajile 6y ago
    That's disingenuous. Only 2 officers required hospitalization. For comparison, there were many hospitalizations every single night of the 90-ish day Antifa seige of the Oregon federal courthouse. In Oregon, Antifa were blasting officers with fireworks, going after them with hammers, polearms, shields, etc. We didn't see that in DC either. Instead we find the police generally getting along with the overwhelming majority of protesters. Even 9 guns is nothing worth mentioning statistically. If those people had been interested in causing serious harm, almost all of them could have shown up with AR-15s. Hundreds of thousands of people with AR-15s could easily overpower any troops that could have been sent into the area. The fact that we didn't see this once again plays against the media's claims of a coup attempt.
    - mrguyorama 6y ago
      They brought bombs and a cooler full of molotov cocktails. This was a planned violent activity
- haswell 6y ago
  People are reacting negatively to this comment (and rightly so) because your representation of what was said in the video does not match the tone, or underlying message delivered by said video. The video was the equivalent of watching a kid, who has been rightly verbally disciplined by a parent, and who has been told they must apologize to their sibling/friend/whatever, so that kid says "Ok ok I'm SORRY", but immediately starts to rationalize/explain away why they were still right. > explicitly asked people to go home The words were said, but the sentiment and subsequent message told the viewer the opposite. "Go home" ... "but you're loved/special and I understand you, wink wink". The equivalent of "SORRY" ... "(but I'm really not sorry...)". Others have already reacted to the comment about "peaceful" behavior and injuries, and those comments reflect my thoughts, so I won't expand on them here.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >peaceful which they mostly were as evidenced by the fact that no capitol staff or police were in any way injured during the incident. At least one Capitol police officer is dead. Beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Many of the folks arrested had cable ties similar to those used by police to "handcuff" people. One insurrectionist was found with materials to make molotov cocktails.
moate 6y ago
Yes, while also providing encouragement for those illegally entering the capital by calling them "loved" and "special".
- ndjdjxjsjdjdhd 6y ago
  Wait, seriously why is he banned though?
  - moate 6y ago
    Because he did not actually provide a statement condemning the riot that took place and said several things that are being interpreted (by both his followers and his opposition) as supporting the behavior. (Please try not to read this in a condescending way): There is a difference between "You need to leave the capital building immediately. You are breaking the law and this will not be tolerated" (an approximation of the message many officials offered). and "Please go home. You are loved and you are special to this movement" (approximation of Trump's statement)
    - ndjdjxjsjdjdhd 6y ago
      Are there any other HN folks out there who are confused by this? If I recall watching it, he asked everyone to go home and peacefully. It seems the real issue is he won’t accept fraud didn’t happen and people are conflating that with calls to violence. Doesn’t feel genuine or real. There has to be people reading this thinking WTF too.
      - evilturnip 6y ago
        I agree, I'm confused. He's urging against violence, but standing by his claims of fraud. But people are claiming that's not what he's "really" saying. OK.. so I can basically say the same thing about anyone saying anything. Who decides what he "really" means? Just so I won't be downvoted, I'm not a fan of Trump.
        6y ago
fullshark 6y ago
See for yourself: https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/trump-releases-statement-telling-supporters-in-dc-to-go-home/ https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/trump-releases-statement-telli... Someone described this video as taking a log off the fire while simultaneously pouring gasoline which I think is a fair characterization.
- ndjdjxjsjdjdhd 6y ago
  So basically you are saying: - Asking for peace isn’t enough - And. He really needs to stop believing his claim of fraud? Wild. Am I crazy or is everyone else right now?
  - fullshark 6y ago
    I'm saying this video will further instill anger in his supporters and possibly if not probably lead to greater acts of political violence.
    - imwillofficial 6y ago
      So you’re ok with disenfranchising people’s genuine dissatisfaction with the way the elections were run?
      - fullshark 6y ago
        I'm ok with removing users that violate the terms of service even if they are presidents.
      - willis936 6y ago
        What’s genuine about it? It was litigated in nearly a hundred court cases, many of which had conservative political appointee judges. No evidence. No actual claims of fraud because the lawyers want to keep their bar and know the claims are fraudulent. Trump’s base is upset that they lost the election. Nothing more.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
neogodless 6y ago
There's a phrase "Talking out of both sides of your mouth." He said what he believed the urging of politicans, media and oppositional citizens wanted by saying "go home" while continuing to say what his base wanted to hear - "we won in a landslide and it was stolen." Each side could choose to only hear what they want, or recognize it for the manipulation it is. We know what his followers will do - hear what they want to hear. We know what his opposition will do - hear it for the manipulation it is. Therefore we can conclude that it was not a genuine urging of his followers to actually give up and leave.
- imglorp 6y ago
  The President's attorney also ran a rally 2 hours before the riot calling for "trial by combat". Some speech is way over the line. There's always a wink at the end. https://twitter.com/SamuelSokol/status/1347173729458122753 https://twitter.com/SamuelSokol/status/1347173729458122753
- NE2z2T9qi 6y ago
  And when politicians call each other Nazis, or when Joe Biden claimed that Mitt Romney wanted to re-enslave black people? Seems like you're only going to apply your "inciting violence" claim to one side. I watched cities burn over the summer and intense levels of violence... And yet no one on the left trotted out speech bans and "incitement to violence" claims. It's obvious you're selectively targeting enforcement of intentionally vague standards. Federal buildings were being accosted in Portland and Seattle just a few months ago and the mayors supported them. Haven't seen their accounts banned.
  - donohoe 6y ago
    Not the same thing. Stop trying to make the two sound the same. It all started when Mr. Biden, addressing a predominantly African American crowd, quoted Mr. Romney as saying in his first 100 days as president that "he's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules -- unchain Wall Street." Then the vice president added with a grin: "They're going to put y'all back in chains!"
stdgy 6y ago
He was intentionally continuing to fan the flames of insurrection using specific lies about the status of the election, while at the same time pretending to ask them to peacefully disperse. This seems pretty obvious?
apocalypstyx 6y ago
It's like saying: your spouse is being assaulted, stay peaceful and go home.
donohoe 6y ago
Am guessing you created that throwaway account because you know well how this comment makes you look, but you won't own up to it.
leepowers 6y ago
For months Trump has asserted that mail-in voting is intrinsically insecure and fraudulent. He's also been parroting baseless lies and conspiracy theories about the election. Telling his supporters their vote is being suppressed by all the parties that refuse to go along with his insane demands. These parties include: state and federal governments, private companies that build voting machines, poll workers, Republican secretaries of state, state and federal courts, a complicit press, and now even the vice president. If you believe what Trump says then you must believe that the entire system of democratic representation has broken down. Under this mindset it makes sense to resort to violent action and storm the capitol - what other recourse do you have? That's why rioters left a "WE WILL NOT BACK DOWN" note on Pelosi's desk. And when Trump says the loves and supports the rioters, that's the mindset he's reinforcing and encouraging. When Trump says everyone should go home - why should we treat that statement as normative? When virtually everything else this man has said agitates and encourages insurrection, why should we glom onto this one positive statement? > The shocking events of the last 24 hours clearly demonstrate that President Donald Trump intends to use his remaining time in office to undermine the peaceful and lawful transition of power to his elected successor, Joe Biden. The account bans are not just because of this one video considered in isolation. The bans are happening because of the systematic anti-democratic and seditious behavior of the president and his campaign.

uncoder0 6y ago

You are correct the video all the platforms are using to justify the bans explicitly asked people to go home. Previously he had urged them to be peaceful which they mostly were as evidenced by the fact that no capitol staff or police were in any way injured during the incident. edit: Leaving my comment intact as there are people who have replied. VBProgrammer pointed out that a portion of my statement is not true. This morning the DC police revealed two officers were hospitalized with injuries and one was described as having serious injuries while 12 others suffered other injuries.

ndjdjxjsjdjdhd 6y ago
I’m sorry and I’m being serious. Why is he banned then?
- uncoder0 6y ago
  He's no longer useful to them for generating traffic and user data.
- moate 6y ago
  Because the above post is a misrepresentation of what was said.
- gambiting 6y ago
  Because the entire attack on Capitol yesterday can be tied directly to the speech he has made just before it. Just because no police/staff were harmed doesn't make it ok - after all, destruction of federal property and buildings carries a potential 10 year imprisonment penalty. So not only he's encouraging criminal actions, but after these actions occurs he tells these criminals that he loves them. And yes, tells them to go home - great, but that's not a redeeming factor here. So......is it still not clear why he's banned?
  - moate 6y ago
    Fact check: Several police officers were harmed/treated for injuries. The crowd used chemical weapons (pepper/bear spray) on officers at several different times during the riot. No less than 2 improvised explosives were recovered from the scene. Please don't give into the "peaceful" narrative. https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/07/954333542/four-dead-police-injured-dozens-arrested-after-siege-at-the-u-s-capitol https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tall...
    - gambiting 6y ago
      Ok, yeah, my mistake for just repeating a stupid comment then. Thanks for correcting it.
    - jonathanstrange 6y ago
      Some of them were also armed with assault rifles, others with blunt weapons like baseball bats. And they were stupid enough to get filmed on camera and partly even incriminated themselves afterwards by admitting the crime and providing their real names in front of the camera. It's pretty crazy, if you think about it.
- greenpolygon 6y ago
  His commentary on election fraud is seen as fueling the riot. Paraphrasing, the video comes across as: "you should go home. You're special and I love you. This is a fraudulent, illegitimate election and america is being stolen from you" It's like people who start sentences with "no offense, but"
- yuters 6y ago
  His speech condone their actions at first and then asks them to be calm and go home. You can't have it both ways.
RHSeeger 6y ago
Destroying and stealing is not "peaceful", it's just not "violent against people".
- UnFleshedOne 6y ago
  It is, in the new 2020 definition.
forgetfulness 6y ago
Then doubling down on the narrative that drives these people, one that is directly opposed to peaceful transfer of power: the illegitimacy of the election results. That's an incredibly dangerous message from the President of the United States, he's telling them to go home in one sentence and riling them up in the other, that encourages further insurrection around his persona. Facebook is in the right not to allow that spark when whole situation is a powder keg.
- lurker619 6y ago
  This really reminds me of Antony's "Friends, romans, countrymen..." speech that is ostensibly peaceful and respectful but is actually riling up the crowd.
VBprogrammer 6y ago
That's false. At least 14 officers hurt. See for example: https://www.foxnews.com/us/d-c-mayor-issues-order-extending-public-emergency-for-15-days-following-chaos-at-capitol https://www.foxnews.com/us/d-c-mayor-issues-order-extending-...
- hajile 6y ago
  That's disingenuous. Only 2 officers required hospitalization. For comparison, there were many hospitalizations every single night of the 90-ish day Antifa seige of the Oregon federal courthouse. In Oregon, Antifa were blasting officers with fireworks, going after them with hammers, polearms, shields, etc. We didn't see that in DC either. Instead we find the police generally getting along with the overwhelming majority of protesters. Even 9 guns is nothing worth mentioning statistically. If those people had been interested in causing serious harm, almost all of them could have shown up with AR-15s. Hundreds of thousands of people with AR-15s could easily overpower any troops that could have been sent into the area. The fact that we didn't see this once again plays against the media's claims of a coup attempt.
  - mrguyorama 6y ago
    They brought bombs and a cooler full of molotov cocktails. This was a planned violent activity
haswell 6y ago
People are reacting negatively to this comment (and rightly so) because your representation of what was said in the video does not match the tone, or underlying message delivered by said video. The video was the equivalent of watching a kid, who has been rightly verbally disciplined by a parent, and who has been told they must apologize to their sibling/friend/whatever, so that kid says "Ok ok I'm SORRY", but immediately starts to rationalize/explain away why they were still right. > explicitly asked people to go home The words were said, but the sentiment and subsequent message told the viewer the opposite. "Go home" ... "but you're loved/special and I understand you, wink wink". The equivalent of "SORRY" ... "(but I'm really not sorry...)". Others have already reacted to the comment about "peaceful" behavior and injuries, and those comments reflect my thoughts, so I won't expand on them here.
nobody9999 6y ago
>peaceful which they mostly were as evidenced by the fact that no capitol staff or police were in any way injured during the incident. At least one Capitol police officer is dead. Beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Many of the folks arrested had cable ties similar to those used by police to "handcuff" people. One insurrectionist was found with materials to make molotov cocktails.

moate 6y ago

Yes, while also providing encouragement for those illegally entering the capital by calling them "loved" and "special".

ndjdjxjsjdjdhd 6y ago
Wait, seriously why is he banned though?
- moate 6y ago
  Because he did not actually provide a statement condemning the riot that took place and said several things that are being interpreted (by both his followers and his opposition) as supporting the behavior. (Please try not to read this in a condescending way): There is a difference between "You need to leave the capital building immediately. You are breaking the law and this will not be tolerated" (an approximation of the message many officials offered). and "Please go home. You are loved and you are special to this movement" (approximation of Trump's statement)
  - ndjdjxjsjdjdhd 6y ago
    Are there any other HN folks out there who are confused by this? If I recall watching it, he asked everyone to go home and peacefully. It seems the real issue is he won’t accept fraud didn’t happen and people are conflating that with calls to violence. Doesn’t feel genuine or real. There has to be people reading this thinking WTF too.
    - evilturnip 6y ago
      I agree, I'm confused. He's urging against violence, but standing by his claims of fraud. But people are claiming that's not what he's "really" saying. OK.. so I can basically say the same thing about anyone saying anything. Who decides what he "really" means? Just so I won't be downvoted, I'm not a fan of Trump.
      - 6y ago

fullshark 6y ago

See for yourself: https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/trump-releases-statement-telling-supporters-in-dc-to-go-home/ https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/trump-releases-statement-telli... Someone described this video as taking a log off the fire while simultaneously pouring gasoline which I think is a fair characterization.

ndjdjxjsjdjdhd 6y ago
So basically you are saying: - Asking for peace isn’t enough - And. He really needs to stop believing his claim of fraud? Wild. Am I crazy or is everyone else right now?
- fullshark 6y ago
  I'm saying this video will further instill anger in his supporters and possibly if not probably lead to greater acts of political violence.
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    So you’re ok with disenfranchising people’s genuine dissatisfaction with the way the elections were run?
    - fullshark 6y ago
      I'm ok with removing users that violate the terms of service even if they are presidents.
    - willis936 6y ago
      What’s genuine about it? It was litigated in nearly a hundred court cases, many of which had conservative political appointee judges. No evidence. No actual claims of fraud because the lawyers want to keep their bar and know the claims are fraudulent. Trump’s base is upset that they lost the election. Nothing more.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

neogodless 6y ago

There's a phrase "Talking out of both sides of your mouth." He said what he believed the urging of politicans, media and oppositional citizens wanted by saying "go home" while continuing to say what his base wanted to hear - "we won in a landslide and it was stolen." Each side could choose to only hear what they want, or recognize it for the manipulation it is. We know what his followers will do - hear what they want to hear. We know what his opposition will do - hear it for the manipulation it is. Therefore we can conclude that it was not a genuine urging of his followers to actually give up and leave.

imglorp 6y ago
The President's attorney also ran a rally 2 hours before the riot calling for "trial by combat". Some speech is way over the line. There's always a wink at the end. https://twitter.com/SamuelSokol/status/1347173729458122753 https://twitter.com/SamuelSokol/status/1347173729458122753
NE2z2T9qi 6y ago
And when politicians call each other Nazis, or when Joe Biden claimed that Mitt Romney wanted to re-enslave black people? Seems like you're only going to apply your "inciting violence" claim to one side. I watched cities burn over the summer and intense levels of violence... And yet no one on the left trotted out speech bans and "incitement to violence" claims. It's obvious you're selectively targeting enforcement of intentionally vague standards. Federal buildings were being accosted in Portland and Seattle just a few months ago and the mayors supported them. Haven't seen their accounts banned.
- donohoe 6y ago
  Not the same thing. Stop trying to make the two sound the same. It all started when Mr. Biden, addressing a predominantly African American crowd, quoted Mr. Romney as saying in his first 100 days as president that "he's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules -- unchain Wall Street." Then the vice president added with a grin: "They're going to put y'all back in chains!"

stdgy 6y ago

He was intentionally continuing to fan the flames of insurrection using specific lies about the status of the election, while at the same time pretending to ask them to peacefully disperse. This seems pretty obvious?

apocalypstyx 6y ago

It's like saying: your spouse is being assaulted, stay peaceful and go home.

donohoe 6y ago

Am guessing you created that throwaway account because you know well how this comment makes you look, but you won't own up to it.

leepowers 6y ago

For months Trump has asserted that mail-in voting is intrinsically insecure and fraudulent. He's also been parroting baseless lies and conspiracy theories about the election. Telling his supporters their vote is being suppressed by all the parties that refuse to go along with his insane demands. These parties include: state and federal governments, private companies that build voting machines, poll workers, Republican secretaries of state, state and federal courts, a complicit press, and now even the vice president. If you believe what Trump says then you must believe that the entire system of democratic representation has broken down. Under this mindset it makes sense to resort to violent action and storm the capitol - what other recourse do you have? That's why rioters left a "WE WILL NOT BACK DOWN" note on Pelosi's desk. And when Trump says the loves and supports the rioters, that's the mindset he's reinforcing and encouraging. When Trump says everyone should go home - why should we treat that statement as normative? When virtually everything else this man has said agitates and encourages insurrection, why should we glom onto this one positive statement? > The shocking events of the last 24 hours clearly demonstrate that President Donald Trump intends to use his remaining time in office to undermine the peaceful and lawful transition of power to his elected successor, Joe Biden. The account bans are not just because of this one video considered in isolation. The bans are happening because of the systematic anti-democratic and seditious behavior of the president and his campaign.