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Signal is run by someone who hates repeatable builds and open platforms. Telegram is to the russian government what whatsapp is to the US government. That is t

Signal is run by someone who hates repeatable builds and open platforms. Telegram is to the russian government what whatsapp is to the US government. That is to say, both options are bad. Of course it is conceptually better to spread your information over many separate information silos so that your data is harder to correlate. That should not be the bar we aspire to though.

Freak_NL 6y ago
All of these apps seem to hate open platforms and third party clients; Signal just as much as WhatsApp. I wouldn't even mind using WhatsApp if I could just open a browser window on any modern computer and log on like I can with Twitter. But no, I need to have a smartphone with either Android or IOS. They all want that magic unique personal identifier that is the mobile phone number to prevent you from having more than one persona, and they all want their closed apps as the sole way of using their service. Of course, that requirement is exactly how they implement the user lock-in, so it's not going anywhere until legislation forces them to open up.
- vorticalbox 6y ago
  Signal is actually open source but I agree with the sentiment. Services now just want some person info they can link to you and that actually scares me a little.
  - Freak_NL 6y ago
    You're right about Signal having an open source client of course. It's a closed platform because of the 'no-forks-allowed' stipulations.
    - Bit32 6y ago
      The main reason for not wishing that Signal is forked revolves around adding new features. It stops things being fragmented. As both the client _and the server_ is open source though it's entirely possible to do things like Signal<->Matrix bridges.
avaika 6y ago
Ah. That's why Russian government was trying to block Telegram for over two years. Good to know.
- rusk 6y ago
  They could have just been doing that to lend it legitimacy ... psyops is something they’re very big into these days
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    I've heard that before and the idea is reasonable but I must say if they've actually pulled of that stunt then it is amazing because I've seen nothing to suggest so despite being aware of the possibility for years.
    - rusk 6y ago
      I’d say it’s pretty much their MO these days
      - skinkestek 6y ago
        You mean directing people were they want by pretending they don't want you to while not taking action against those who do? If so, do you have other notable examples or is it insider information? ;-)
        rusk 6y ago
        I think it’s pretty well known ... have a look into this guy https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/382489/ https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/... I know you’re not engaging in good faith but I’m adding this more for the benefit of onlookers
        skinkestek 6y ago
        > I know you’re not engaging in good faith but I’m adding this more for the benefit of onlookers That was uncalled for. Please adjust your troll-detector and I'll adjust my wittyness dispenser ;-) I am serious even when I'm joking, but I have never heard anyone saying that in full seriousness and also it feels like we should have known something: even the Russian secret service isn't perfect, in fact they've done some really big mistakes the last few years (in addition to their deliberate "mistakes" that they seemingly do to show off.)
HoolaBoola 6y ago
I don't think it's the Russian government you should be concerned about when using Telegram. Sure, TG is far from a secure platform, but the Russians have spent considerable effort trying to shut it down so out of all the possibilities, I'd say TG being in Russian hands is among the smallest.
rorykoehler 6y ago
>Telegram is to the russian government what whatsapp is to the US government. Do you have a source for that. Telegram is built by the VKontakt guys who Putin famously fucked over.
feanaro 6y ago
And that's why we have Matrix.

Freak_NL 6y ago

All of these apps seem to hate open platforms and third party clients; Signal just as much as WhatsApp. I wouldn't even mind using WhatsApp if I could just open a browser window on any modern computer and log on like I can with Twitter. But no, I need to have a smartphone with either Android or IOS. They all want that magic unique personal identifier that is the mobile phone number to prevent you from having more than one persona, and they all want their closed apps as the sole way of using their service. Of course, that requirement is exactly how they implement the user lock-in, so it's not going anywhere until legislation forces them to open up.

vorticalbox 6y ago
Signal is actually open source but I agree with the sentiment. Services now just want some person info they can link to you and that actually scares me a little.
- Freak_NL 6y ago
  You're right about Signal having an open source client of course. It's a closed platform because of the 'no-forks-allowed' stipulations.
  - Bit32 6y ago
    The main reason for not wishing that Signal is forked revolves around adding new features. It stops things being fragmented. As both the client _and the server_ is open source though it's entirely possible to do things like Signal<->Matrix bridges.

avaika 6y ago

Ah. That's why Russian government was trying to block Telegram for over two years. Good to know.

rusk 6y ago
They could have just been doing that to lend it legitimacy ... psyops is something they’re very big into these days
- skinkestek 6y ago
  I've heard that before and the idea is reasonable but I must say if they've actually pulled of that stunt then it is amazing because I've seen nothing to suggest so despite being aware of the possibility for years.
  - rusk 6y ago
    I’d say it’s pretty much their MO these days
    - skinkestek 6y ago
      You mean directing people were they want by pretending they don't want you to while not taking action against those who do? If so, do you have other notable examples or is it insider information? ;-)
      - rusk 6y ago
        I think it’s pretty well known ... have a look into this guy https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/382489/ https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/... I know you’re not engaging in good faith but I’m adding this more for the benefit of onlookers
        skinkestek 6y ago
        > I know you’re not engaging in good faith but I’m adding this more for the benefit of onlookers That was uncalled for. Please adjust your troll-detector and I'll adjust my wittyness dispenser ;-) I am serious even when I'm joking, but I have never heard anyone saying that in full seriousness and also it feels like we should have known something: even the Russian secret service isn't perfect, in fact they've done some really big mistakes the last few years (in addition to their deliberate "mistakes" that they seemingly do to show off.)

HoolaBoola 6y ago

I don't think it's the Russian government you should be concerned about when using Telegram. Sure, TG is far from a secure platform, but the Russians have spent considerable effort trying to shut it down so out of all the possibilities, I'd say TG being in Russian hands is among the smallest.

rorykoehler 6y ago

>Telegram is to the russian government what whatsapp is to the US government. Do you have a source for that. Telegram is built by the VKontakt guys who Putin famously fucked over.

feanaro 6y ago

And that's why we have Matrix.