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Archiving the Capitol Hill Riots
- neartheplain 6y agoSimilar archive of clips + streams from the George Floyd protests: https://twitter.com/unrealdeveloper/status/1315792864702394368 https://twitter.com/unrealdeveloper/status/13157928647023943...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- um_ya 6y agoSad that we have to do this. Trump supporters have been consistently pigeonholed by big tech censorship.
- detaro 6y agoIf law enforcement is anywhere close to how interested they were in digging through posted photos/video as they were at other times recently, a lot of them will probably wish they'd been censored before the evidence got archived.
- newguy1234 6y agoThe difference is during the BLM/ANTIFA riots, people were doing much more serious stuff. One kid got bagged because he threw a pipe bomb over the fence at federal agents (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm_lZxmPxUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm_lZxmPxUU) and another one where a guy hit federal agents with a hammer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlKbR3Gcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlKbR3Gcs). There was another situation where some lawyers (not kidding) threw a Molotov cocktail into a police car that had police actually in it.
- detaro 6y agoAnd police did use images to track down people who did none of those things.
- newguy1234 6y agoThey were prosecuted.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- uncledave 6y agoI think this is a functional side effect of their communities. I’ve watched it happen on a smaller scale numerous times where people evict critical folk from their community. What you end up with is a snowballing monoculture which believes it is right because there is nothing to test ideas against. This usually decays into a right mess as is outlined. This is nothing to do with tech. It’s closer to burning witches who are undesirable in your community. It makes your community broken.
- newguy1234 6y agoIt happens in the left-wing as well. Reddit used to be a place where left-wing and right-wing could discuss stuff but then the left-wing got so hostile at "right-wingers" that they started banning them. So the right-wing people left and simply made their own communities off reddit. Well guess what happens next? Rampant conspiracy theories, more violent rhetoric and so on. So the right wing becomes more radicalized. For this Jan 6th march, I saw many people on right wing websites saying they wanted to fight BLM/ANTIFA people and give them the beat down basically.
- uncledave 6y agoIt’s not related to political wings at all and is self polarising. There are isolated factions of railway modellers, hairdressers, runners, cyclists and school mums as well! We’re a tribal species. This just allows us to execute our base instincts quicker. It’s stupid really. On politics I refuse to align with any ideology, only policies. There’s no us and them argument then, just the merit of the policy to consider.
- jnordonez 6y agoHow do you feel about the violent insurrection on our nation's Capitol that trump supporters perpetrated? I think that's pretty sad.
- Raed667 6y agoWhite nationalists tend to delete their own videos when they think it will become evidence. Luckily people saved a lot of footage from Charlottesville and hopefully it will be the same for the videos from the Capitol.
- rvz 6y agoWell its both sides of the political spectrum; not just limited to one side. Actually, it's more like those who are guilty like deleting their own recordings, messages and pictures off of social media after the event is broadcasted all over the world, including the Proud Boys, BLM, Antifa and Patriot Prayer.
- jeffbee 6y agoYes, that time Antifa stormed the US capitol, they erased their tracks so thoroughly that virtually all Americans are still unaware that it ever happened!
- mustacheemperor 6y agoNobody above equivocated antifa to today’s rioters in any way except to the shared human tendency to delete self-incriminating evidence. Please don’t do this here.
- zorpner 6y agoLiterally Matt Gaetz (R-Florida) asserted that today's rioters were antifa, a few hours ago. Please stop spreading disinformation.
- polka_haunts_us 6y agoWhich of the above users is Matt Gaetz exactly?
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- StartupTree 6y agoThey are archiving the "wrong" thing. There have been similar "archive this!" movements this year, generally focussed on online communities targetting their political opponents. In 50 years what is going to be "hard to find" and unarchived? The things that NOBODY is talking about now! You need to be coldly unemotional and consider what your community DOES NOT CARE ABOUT. This will often be things that are politically awkward for you and your community. There will be 1000s of people archiving this event and NONE archiving events which do not suit the political narrative. Accepting this is difficult! What is happening here is the equivalent of your parents keeping a newspaper of man first landing on the moon, which is now the most common vintage newspaper that exists.
- boomboomsubban 6y agoThe fear is that that these events will end up falling down the memory hole, so it's best to ensure as much remains as possible. They want to ensure the actual moon landing newspaper is not replaced by the millions of replicas sold each year. Beyond that, let people archive what they want. If you think there are more important targets, archive it yourself or politely ask their community for assistance.
- sethc2 6y agoIf we use this logic then we are saying what people aren’t talking about will be the “right” thing to archive. Is this a true statement? Is it not that popular things are the things that people remember? The Beatles were popular. But that’s not why they are remembered. There were other popular bands completely forgotten. Things become popular for various reasons. Sometimes it is because it reflects a truth of the time, or it was simply good, or beautiful. Other times it is because it’s something that feeds a craving. Mass produced food isn’t necessarily good, but it is popular. I think the things that are good beautiful and true, can be the popular things, but they often aren’t. However the things that last are often good beautiful and true and the things that don’t aren’t. Then again our memory of Hitler lasts, and he wasn’t good, but he did reveal what good was, because it shone so bright against the dark evil of his way of thinking that permeated that culture so well. If you think of Hitler’s murder of Jews, then think of the stories told about those unknowns who risked their lives hiding Jews. The stories show that an utterly unknown person is a vastly better person than Hitler, and his name will never be celebrated the way that unknown person is. We’d do better as a society if we told less stories about Hitler, and more stories of the unknown, courageous, good sacrificial man, who saved the lives of many Jews.
- newguy1234 6y agoIt doesn't matter if video "evidence" is archived. The reality is after the BLM/ANTIFA riots, penalties for 1A activates are basically a slap on the hand. In the vast majority of situations, there is no penalty at all. You need to be doing extremely serious stuff to get bagged. The vast majority of stuff being done would not even warrant a charge. It is just the reality and the stuff that was serious was most likely not even recorded or did not get enough evidence to justify a successful prosecution. The feds only go after people when they have a slam dunk case on them.
- kenhwang 6y agoWell except they actually broke a law. This wasn't simply an 1A activity. 18 U.S. Code § 1752 - Restricted building or grounds (a) Whoever— (2) knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions; https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1752 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1752
- newguy1234 6y agoBreaking a law and being prosecuted for it does not always happen. Look at how many cases the feds actually prosecute. Small amount. They simply do not have enough resources to handle all the potential leads coming in, so the weakest are simply not pursued.
- sethc2 6y agoImagine a government that treated the law with such respect, that every single law was always enforced to a “T”. Our government haphazardly enforces the law and so disrespects it. However with the number of laws we have I’d probably be scared to see them all enforced to a “T”. Though it could be argued our disrespect for the law caused us to write so many laws. Trump is a power hungry man it seems. He’d even break the highest constitutional law of the land if he could get away with it, and not relinquish power. However good thing we’ve respected and kept the 2nd amendment law of the land, so there is a force who will not allow him to break that law of the land. Weirdly enough though Trump is taking a play from the “who cares if we don’t follow the constitution” crowd. Will the constitution lovers prove to be hypocrites, and be fine with breaking it here? Will those who have argued for unconstitutional laws to be passed via the Supreme Court be annoyed, when his newly elected scota judges reinterpret the constitution to let him remain president? Let’s hope that he elected judges who take the constitution written as is so he is firmly booted out of his office without the government to back him Or else it smells like a civil war. Not the North and South this time, but probably rural vs city, across all states. That is a scary thought.
- CaptArmchair 6y agoI think this is part of a larger, important dynamic in society which isn't all that new. The commoditization of digital technology has made on the spot video recording and streaming ubiquitous for better or worst. As a result, it has democratized citizen journalism. I use "journalism" here in the absolute broadest sense of the phrase as freedom of the press, through the 1st amendment, allows anyone to record and share events freely. This isn't new since, historically, capturing and reporting on events has always happened organically through individuals and larger collectives. Whether that's through letters and missives, pamphlets, telegrams, diairies, manifests and so on. In modern times, photography and videography have added to that. And in contemporary times, blogposts, microblogging, and so on have amended that. The big issue has always been this: authority. When the efforts of private archivists are dismissed, it is always on the grounds of authority. What is their expertise that allows them making curatioral decisions? What are their motives and incentives to hoard online content? These are questions that can't easily be answered. Whereas the authority of public archives and libraries tends to be derived from their mission to serve the wider public: to record civic governance and to give the public the ability to hold policy makers accountable, but also to support the public debate and to allow reflection on civil society, past, present and future. The same is true when we oppose citizen journalism against professional journalism. Where the latter has been perceived as authoritative on account of doing their due diligence, journalistic expertise and espoused core values. Whereas the same questions regarding citizen journalists are raised as well: credibility, authority, expertise, incentives and motives. And yet... The reality is that neither perceived as authoritive institutions nor intrepid individuals are exclusive to holding an absolute truth when it comes to creating, keeping and disseminating historical sources. Regardless of how this gets spun, historical records always - always! - give a limited, keyhole look on an event. The historic perspective and the interpretation we give to sources is always limited by what got recorded, and what sources present to us. It is only by combining sources, cross referencing them and an ongoing process of contextualizing that we can inch closer to a nuanced perspective of the past such as it was. For instance, while the archival records of the city archives of Amsterdam may provides administrative details of the persecution and deportation of Jewish families during World War II, it is the private diary of Anne Frank that gives insight in the personal experience of hiding underground. While the events around the assassination of JFK have been recorded in great detail by professional journalists and officials, the event itself was only captured by 32 on-lookers who had their film and photograph equipment. This included Abraham Zapruder. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy#Film_and_audio_captures_of_assassination_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_John_F._Kenne... As far as contemporaries were concerned, as events unfolded, the former was just the private musings of a little girl and the latter was a home video of an amateur who accidentally was in the right spot at the right time. Neither of which were seen as source of huge historic importance. That only happened later on. All of this to say that the speed at which, today, mere minutes into the event, individuals felt the need to record events as they unfolded shows how the exponentially increased complexity of our digital world has made all of this even more fraught. This complexity has spawned massive amounts of digital data which will be very hard to assess and curate. And which will make it, undoubtedly, even harder to combine sources and interpret what has happened and what has triggered this. As it happens, making curational decisions from a historic perspective is impossible. There just hasn't been enough distance between the past and the present to see clearly the former in the rear view mirror. Rather then focussing on curating and value attribution, collecting and safeguarding is of importance in the moment itself. Any discussion about authority of sources and their historical relevance, or the capturing of online sources via private archiving efforts, can only happen in earnest as time passes and the mounds of materials gathered can be processed in earnest.
- SapporoChris 6y agoAnd the MEGA account was banned. "This folder/file was reported to contain objectionable content, such as Child Exploitation Material, Violent Extremism, or Beastiality. The link creator's account has been closed and their full details, including IP address, has been provided to the authorities." It's a shame that it is so easy to abuse reporting and censor things you do not like.
- neartheplain 6y agoLooks like the archivers fell back to BitTorrent. Great use case for the protocol; easy and reliable way to self-host with automatic load distribution.
- gazby 6y agoThey've since reinstated the account and given him premium.
- SapporoChris 6y agoThank you for the update. Glad to see the restore, restored some of my faith in the process.